Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>:
Bug#114229; Package tar.   debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgBdale Garbee  Subject: Bug#114229: Shouldn't complain about timestamps in the future Reply-To: "M. Hari Nezumi" , 114229@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: "M. Hari Nezumi" Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Bdale Garbee Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 18:33:01 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@bugs.debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 114229 X-Debian-PR-Package: tar X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by submit@bugs.debian.org id=B.100204696214344 (code B ref -1); Tue, 02 Oct 2001 18:33:01 GMT From: "M. Hari Nezumi" To: Debian Bug Tracking System X-Reportbug-Version: 1.25 X-Mailer: reportbug 1.25 Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 12:26:01 -0600 Message-Id: Delivered-To: submit@bugs.debian.org Package: tar Version: 1.13.19-1 Severity: wishlist I synchronize my computer's clock to an NTP server. When I create a tar file, it puts on my local timestamp. Then I decompress the same tar file on another machine (using tar xvpf, since I want to preserve the file permissions, which IMO should be done by default, but that's another matter). The machine I extract it on syncs to an NTP server which is a few minutes behind. So when I extract the tar file, I get a whole bunch of errors like: tar: public_html/gallery/audio/fp/fans.html: time stamp 2001-10-02 11:12:33 is 127 s in the future which is very annoying. :) It also gets in the way of me seeing any *real* errors which may have occurred. Basically, it'd be nice if it didn't complain about future timestamps like that, or if it only complained once per archive or something. -- System Information Debian Release: testing/unstable Architecture: i386 Kernel: Linux trikuare 2.4.8 #1 Mon Sep 3 10:36:12 MDT 2001 i686 Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C Versions of packages tar depends on: ii libc6 2.2.4-1 GNU C Library: Shared libraries an   Acknowledgement sent to "M. Hari Nezumi" <magenta@trikuare.cx>:
New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>.   -t  From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Debian Bug Tracking System) To: "M. Hari Nezumi" Subject: Bug#114229: Acknowledgement (Shouldn't complain about timestamps in the future) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Debian-PR-Message: ack 114229 Reply-To: 114229@bugs.debian.org Thank you for the problem report you have sent regarding Debian. This is an automatically generated reply, to let you know your message has been received. It is being forwarded to the developers mailing list for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Bdale Garbee If you wish to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 114229@bugs.debian.org (and *not* to submit@bugs.debian.org). Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. Darren Benham (administrator, Debian Bugs database)   Received: (at submit) by bugs.debian.org; 2 Oct 2001 18:22:42 +0000 From magenta@trikuare.cx Tue Oct 02 13:22:42 2001 Return-path: Received: from robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.65] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 15oUBm-0003jH-00; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 13:22:42 -0500 Received: from porcupine.trikuare.cx (1Cust165.tnt2.las-cruces.nm.da.uu.net [63.38.196.165]) by robin.mail.pas.earthlink.net (8.11.5/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f92IMZT11284; Tue, 2 Oct 2001 11:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trikuare.trikuare.cx ([192.168.1.2] ident=magenta) by porcupine.trikuare.cx with smtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 15oSb4-0002Cf-00; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 10:40:42 -0600 Received: by trikuare.trikuare.cx (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:26:01 -0600 From: "M. Hari Nezumi" To: Debian Bug Tracking System Subject: Shouldn't complain about timestamps in the future X-Reportbug-Version: 1.25 X-Mailer: reportbug 1.25 Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 12:26:01 -0600 Message-Id: Delivered-To: submit@bugs.debian.org Package: tar Version: 1.13.19-1 Severity: wishlist I synchronize my computer's clock to an NTP server. When I create a tar file, it puts on my local timestamp. Then I decompress the same tar file on another machine (using tar xvpf, since I want to preserve the file permissions, which IMO should be done by default, but that's another matter). The machine I extract it on syncs to an NTP server which is a few minutes behind. So when I extract the tar file, I get a whole bunch of errors like: tar: public_html/gallery/audio/fp/fans.html: time stamp 2001-10-02 11:12:33 is 127 s in the future which is very annoying. :) It also gets in the way of me seeing any *real* errors which may have occurred. Basically, it'd be nice if it didn't complain about future timestamps like that, or if it only complained once per archive or something. -- System Information Debian Release: testing/unstable Architecture: i386 Kernel: Linux trikuare 2.4.8 #1 Mon Sep 3 10:36:12 MDT 2001 i686 Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C Versions of packages tar depends on: ii libc6 2.2.4-1 GNU C Library: Shared libraries an   Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org:
Bug#114229; Package tar.   debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org  Subject: Bug#114229: Shouldn't complain about timestamps in the future Reply-To: Bdale Garbee , 114229@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: Bdale Garbee Original-Sender: bdale@rover.gag.com Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 21:48:01 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@bugs.debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 114229 X-Debian-PR-Package: tar X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 114229-submit@bugs.debian.org id=B114229.100205909532197 (code B ref 114229); Tue, 02 Oct 2001 21:48:01 GMT Sender: bdale@rover.gag.com To: "M. Hari Nezumi" , 114229@bugs.debian.org References: From: Bdale Garbee Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 15:41:53 -0600 In-Reply-To: (magenta@trikuare.cx's message of "2 Oct 2001 12:42:38 -0600") Message-ID: <87itdxiuse.fsf@rover.gag.com> Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090004 (Oort Gnus v0.04) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Delivered-To: 114229@bugs.debian.org magenta@trikuare.cx (M. Hari Nezumi) writes: > ... syncs to an NTP server which is a few minutes behind. Of course, the notion that a server using NTP could be "a few minutes behind" is pretty bad... Probably worth getting fixed regardless of how tar behaves. Bdale   Acknowledgement sent to Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list.   -t  From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Debian Bug Tracking System) To: Bdale Garbee Subject: Bug#114229: Info received (was Bug#114229: Shouldn't complain about timestamps in the future) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <87itdxiuse.fsf@rover.gag.com> References: <87itdxiuse.fsf@rover.gag.com> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info 114229 Disabled-Doogie-Reply-To: 114229@bugs.debian.org Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers mailing list to accompany the original report. If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 114229@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. Darren Benham (administrator, Debian Bugs database)   Received: (at 114229) by bugs.debian.org; 2 Oct 2001 21:44:55 +0000 From bdale@gag.com Tue Oct 02 16:44:55 2001 Return-path: Received: from rover.gag.com [192.133.104.32] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 15oXLT-0008NG-00; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 16:44:55 -0500 Received: by rover.gag.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F3C3D3BC55; Tue, 2 Oct 2001 15:41:53 -0600 (MDT) Sender: bdale@rover.gag.com To: "M. Hari Nezumi" , 114229@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#114229: Shouldn't complain about timestamps in the future References: From: Bdale Garbee Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 15:41:53 -0600 In-Reply-To: (magenta@trikuare.cx's message of "2 Oct 2001 12:42:38 -0600") Message-ID: <87itdxiuse.fsf@rover.gag.com> Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090004 (Oort Gnus v0.04) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Delivered-To: 114229@bugs.debian.org magenta@trikuare.cx (M. Hari Nezumi) writes: > ... syncs to an NTP server which is a few minutes behind. Of course, the notion that a server using NTP could be "a few minutes behind" is pretty bad... Probably worth getting fixed regardless of how tar behaves. Bdale   Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>:
Bug#114229; Package tar.   debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgBdale Garbee  Subject: Bug#114229: Shouldn't complain about timestamps in the future Reply-To: "M. Hari Nezumi" , 114229@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: "M. Hari Nezumi" Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Bdale Garbee Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 22:33:02 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@bugs.debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 114229 X-Debian-PR-Package: tar X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 114229-submit@bugs.debian.org id=B114229.10020611255071 (code B ref 114229); Tue, 02 Oct 2001 22:33:02 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 15:18:42 -0700 From: "M. Hari Nezumi" To: Bdale Garbee Cc: 114229@bugs.debian.org Message-ID: <20011002151842.A12223@bokbok.squeep.com> References: <87itdxiuse.fsf@rover.gag.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <87itdxiuse.fsf@rover.gag.com>; from bdale@gag.com on Tue, Oct 02, 2001 at 03:41:53PM -0600 Delivered-To: 114229@bugs.debian.org On Tue, Oct 02, 2001 at 03:41:53PM -0600, Bdale Garbee wrote: > magenta@trikuare.cx (M. Hari Nezumi) writes: > > > ... syncs to an NTP server which is a few minutes behind. > > Of course, the notion that a server using NTP could be "a few minutes behind" > is pretty bad... Probably worth getting fixed regardless of how tar behaves. Yeah, of course, but that's besides the point. What about a machine which is just getting set up and doesn't have ntpd on, for example? IMO, absolute system time is one of those things which shouldn't be relied on to an extreme. Obviously, it's very useful for stuff (such as triggering at or cron events), and to an extent the well-ordered nature of relative time as well (though of course NTP updates can still cause problems, and of course there's always the potential for relativistic effects due to travelling at very high relative velocities). Also, there's other situations where the time can be "correct" but have different epoch-based timestamps, for example if the timezone is set incorrectly. The local time appears correct (aside from the timezone), but the UTC time is not. Philosophy aside, it's still really annoying to get a warning on every single file, and it really shouldn't warn more than once, preferrably deferred to the end... I like how Make handles it - it waits until the end of the build cycle and then says, "By the way, clock skew was detected." I see no reason to put the warning on every file. -- Magenta H. Nezumi http://trikuare.cx - home of the porcupine   Acknowledgement sent to "M. Hari Nezumi" <magenta@trikuare.cx>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>.   -t  From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Debian Bug Tracking System) To: "M. Hari Nezumi" Subject: Bug#114229: Info received (was Bug#114229: Shouldn't complain about timestamps in the future) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20011002151842.A12223@bokbok.squeep.com> References: <20011002151842.A12223@bokbok.squeep.com> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info 114229 Disabled-Doogie-Reply-To: 114229@bugs.debian.org Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers mailing list to accompany the original report. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Bdale Garbee If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 114229@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. Darren Benham (administrator, Debian Bugs database)   Received: (at 114229) by bugs.debian.org; 2 Oct 2001 22:18:45 +0000 From magenta@bokbok.squeep.com Tue Oct 02 17:18:45 2001 Return-path: Received: from bokbok.squeep.com [205.158.23.172] (root) by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 15oXsD-0001Jh-00; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 17:18:45 -0500 Received: (from magenta@localhost) by bokbok.squeep.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id f92MIg513077; Tue, 2 Oct 2001 15:18:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 15:18:42 -0700 From: "M. Hari Nezumi" To: Bdale Garbee Cc: 114229@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#114229: Shouldn't complain about timestamps in the future Message-ID: <20011002151842.A12223@bokbok.squeep.com> References: <87itdxiuse.fsf@rover.gag.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <87itdxiuse.fsf@rover.gag.com>; from bdale@gag.com on Tue, Oct 02, 2001 at 03:41:53PM -0600 Delivered-To: 114229@bugs.debian.org On Tue, Oct 02, 2001 at 03:41:53PM -0600, Bdale Garbee wrote: > magenta@trikuare.cx (M. Hari Nezumi) writes: > > > ... syncs to an NTP server which is a few minutes behind. > > Of course, the notion that a server using NTP could be "a few minutes behind" > is pretty bad... Probably worth getting fixed regardless of how tar behaves. Yeah, of course, but that's besides the point. What about a machine which is just getting set up and doesn't have ntpd on, for example? IMO, absolute system time is one of those things which shouldn't be relied on to an extreme. Obviously, it's very useful for stuff (such as triggering at or cron events), and to an extent the well-ordered nature of relative time as well (though of course NTP updates can still cause problems, and of course there's always the potential for relativistic effects due to travelling at very high relative velocities). Also, there's other situations where the time can be "correct" but have different epoch-based timestamps, for example if the timezone is set incorrectly. The local time appears correct (aside from the timezone), but the UTC time is not. Philosophy aside, it's still really annoying to get a warning on every single file, and it really shouldn't warn more than once, preferrably deferred to the end... I like how Make handles it - it waits until the end of the build cycle and then says, "By the way, clock skew was detected." I see no reason to put the warning on every file. -- Magenta H. Nezumi http://trikuare.cx - home of the porcupine