Foos and Bars <author>Christian Schwarz <email/schwarz@debian.org/ <toc sect> <chapt id="intro">Introduction <sect id="about">About Foos .... And here is an extract from another document referencing the first: ... Please check the <ref id="urn:debiandoc identifier:foo"> manual for details ... ... (cf. <ref id="urn:debiandoc identifier:foo#about">) ... The lout/text output would look like this: ... Please check the Foos and Bars manual for details ... ... (cf. Foos and Bars, About Foos) ... The HTML output would look like this: ... Please check the <a href="../foo/index.html">Foos and Bars</a> manual for details ... ... (cf. <a href="../foo/intro.html#about">Foos and Bars, About Foos</a>) ... In the first step, the links will point to the Internet location of the manual. However, we can easily implement a cgi script that pre-processes all manuals, checks if the "local link" exists, and adapts the "href" before the web client gets the document. Consequences: - Only "labeled" objects of a document can be referenced. Thus, the authors should provide an id at least for all chapters. - One needs the "anchors" file of the other documents at compilation time. This produces the "chicken-egg-problem". However, debiandoc will just insert "???" and issue a warning message if the anchors file is not available instead of aborting. This way, one could compile the own document to produce the anchors file, provide this for the other authors, and wait for them to provide the anchors file of their documents. - The links will break if an "id" is renamed. We'll have to use the Debian package dependencies to avoid this. However, if the manual installed on the Internet site is changed, a few old documents installed on some workstation will still point to the wrong URL. (I think we can live with this small disadvantage.) -- Christian Schwarz schwarz@monet.m.isar.de, schwarz@schwarz-online.com schwarz@debian.org, schwarz@mathematik.tu-muenchen.de PGP-fp: 8F 61 EB 6D CF 23 CA D7 34 05 14 5C C8 DC 22 BA CS Software goes online! Visit our new home page at http://www.schwarz-online.com Acknowledgement sent to <code>Christian Schwarz <schwarz@monet.m.isar.de></code>: New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to <code>Christian Schwarz <schwarz@debian.org></code>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Ian Jackson) To: Christian Schwarz <schwarz@monet.m.isar.de> Subject: Bug#14923: Acknowledgement (new <ref> tag for cross references) Message-ID: <handler.14923.B.8796958788602.ack@bugs.debian.org> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971116162417.23089G-100000@monet> References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971116162417.23089G-100000@monet> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack 14923 Thank you for the problem report you have sent regarding Debian Linux. This is an automatically generated reply, to let you know your message has been received. It is being forwarded to the developers' mailing list for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Christian Schwarz <schwarz@debian.org> If you wish to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 14923@bugs.debian.org (and *not* to bugs@bugs.debian.org). Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (maintainer, Debian bug tracking system) Received: (at submit) by bugs.debian.org; 16 Nov 1997 15:57:58 +0000 Received: (qmail 8534 invoked from network); 16 Nov 1997 15:57:55 -0000 Received: from nymphe.m.ISAR.de (Umonet@nymphe.m.ISAR.de@193.141.69.3) by 205.229.104.5 with SMTP; 16 Nov 1997 15:57:55 -0000 Received: (from Umonet@localhost) by nymphe.m.ISAR.de (8.8.7/8.8.7/nymphe-2.1) with UUCP id RAA13265 for submit@bugs.debian.org; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 17:01:39 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: nymphe.m.ISAR.de: Umonet set sender to schwarz@monet.m.isar.de using -f Received: from localhost (schwarz@localhost) by monet.painters.schwarz-online.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23384 for <submit@bugs.debian.org>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:53:59 +0100 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:53:59 +0100 (CET) From: Christian Schwarz <schwarz@monet.m.isar.de> X-Sender: schwarz@monet To: Debian Bugs <submit@bugs.debian.org> Subject: new <ref> tag for cross references Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971116162417.23089G-100000@monet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Package: debiandoc-sgml Severity: wishlist Version: 1.0.11 The following text has been developed and discussed on the debian-doc mailing list in May 97. I've just incorporated a few new ideas. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thanks, Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cross references ---------------- Goals: - we want to have links _between_ documents - the links should be as easy to use as current links within a document - the specification of the "target" for the link should be independent of filenames, www locations, etc. - html output: the link should point to either to a local file if present, or to an Internet location of the document - it would be nice to have a <ref> tag which can be used for any cross references (pointing to docs, packages, URL's, etc.) using an URN syntax Proposal: <ref id="urn:<namespace> identifier:<path>" text="..."> namespace is one of the following: debiandoc - debiandoc sgml files - these would get resolved to the appropriate generated HTML file residing in a directory below the SGML file - path format is "DOCID#id" ie. "debian-policy#binarypkg" package - Debian package - should display the name of the package in HTML output: link to an Internet WWW page describing the package, maintainer, location to download, etc. man - man pages - path format is "name/section" i.e. "bogomips/1" info - info pages - path format is "(info file name)node name" i.e. "(gcc)Copying" dir - directory listing - path format is "filename" ie. /usr/doc file - other local files (typically under /usr/doc) - path format is "filename" html - html pages (typically under /usr/doc) - path format is "filename#anchor" i.e. "/usr/doc/libtiff3/index.html" text - text file (typically under /usr/doc) - path format is "filename" www - Internet URL - path is an URL, e.g. "ftp://ftp.debian.org/" dwww - reference to a dwww menu entry (implementation isn't finalized yet) dwwwsearch - reference to a dwww search string (implementation isn't finalized yet) Examples: <ref id="urn:package identifier:bash"> <ref id="urn:www identifier:http://www.debian.org/" text="Debian's Home Page"> Implementation: - Every document gets a unique "document id" (called DOCID below). This id is used for file names, to reference the document, and so on. Since the name is presented to the user in URLs and directory/file names, the name should not by a cryptic abbreviated. Good examples are "policy-manual", "users-guide", "developers-reference", etc. - The <book> tag gets an "id" attribute. This "id" specifies the DOCID. This attribute is used to identify the document when using cross references, so it is optional, but has to be set if this document is referenced by another document. - <book>, <chapt>, <sect>, ..., <sect4> objects can be referenced, if they provide an "id". - debiandoc creates a file called "foo.anchors" (is this name good?) if DOCID is set to "foo". This file lists all objects that can be referenced by other documents. The syntax used in this file is: LABEL=xxx HTML=yyy TITLE=zzz TYPE=ttt NUM=nnn The arguments (xxx, ...) must not include spaces, or they have to be surrounded by quotes ("). Quotes within the argument have to be escaped (\"). The LABEL is put together from the DOCID, followed by a colon (:), optional followed by a chapter/section id. The HTML value specifies the URL of the referenced object. The TITEL arguments contains the "title" of the object. TYPE can be one of the following: "DOCUMENT", "CHAPTER", "SECTION", dependend on the type of the referenced object. The NUM argument gives the TOC number of the object for chapters or sections. Here is an example (document "Foos and Bars" with DOCID="foo"): -----cut-here-------------------- LABEL=foo: HTML=foo/index.html TITLE="Foos and Bars" \ TYPE=DOCUMENT LABEL=foo:intro HTML=foo/ch-intro.html TITLE="Introduction" \ TYPE=CHAPTER NUM=1 LABEL=foo:about HTML=foo/ch-intro.html#about \ TITLE="About Foos" TYPE=SECTION NUM=1.1 -----cut-here-------------------- - The "foo.anchors" files are stored in a common location in the filesystem. - When debiandoc2html processes an "urn:debiandoc identifier:foo" tag, it checks for the "foo.anchors" file. If this file exists, it resolves the cross reference. Otherwise, it produces a warning message. - The HTML output contains a local reference for "debiandoc" references. In addition, a HTML comment statement is included before the <a href>. A cgi script could be written to check for these comment statements and replace the local <a href> reference with an Internet reference if the file does not exist locally. - All Debian manuals are installed in the same directory structure, on the local system, on the WWW, and on the FTP servers: Filesystem: /usr/doc/manuals/debian-policy/index.html /usr/doc/manuals/debian-policy.ps.gz (optional) WWW server: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-policy/index.html FTP server: ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.html.tar.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.text.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.dvi.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.ps.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.sgml.tar.gz An Example: Here is the .sgml file (a few required tags have been dropped): <book id="foo"> <title>Foos and Bars <author>Christian Schwarz <email/schwarz@debian.org/ <toc sect> <chapt id="intro">Introduction <sect id="about">About Foos .... And here is an extract from another document referencing the first: ... Please check the <ref id="urn:debiandoc identifier:foo"> manual for details ... ... (cf. <ref id="urn:debiandoc identifier:foo#about">) ... The lout/text output would look like this: ... Please check the Foos and Bars manual for details ... ... (cf. Foos and Bars, About Foos) ... The HTML output would look like this: ... Please check the <a href="../foo/index.html">Foos and Bars</a> manual for details ... ... (cf. <a href="../foo/intro.html#about">Foos and Bars, About Foos</a>) ... In the first step, the links will point to the Internet location of the manual. However, we can easily implement a cgi script that pre-processes all manuals, checks if the "local link" exists, and adapts the "href" before the web client gets the document. Consequences: - Only "labeled" objects of a document can be referenced. Thus, the authors should provide an id at least for all chapters. - One needs the "anchors" file of the other documents at compilation time. This produces the "chicken-egg-problem". However, debiandoc will just insert "???" and issue a warning message if the anchors file is not available instead of aborting. This way, one could compile the own document to produce the anchors file, provide this for the other authors, and wait for them to provide the anchors file of their documents. - The links will break if an "id" is renamed. We'll have to use the Debian package dependencies to avoid this. However, if the manual installed on the Internet site is changed, a few old documents installed on some workstation will still point to the wrong URL. (I think we can live with this small disadvantage.) -- Christian Schwarz schwarz@monet.m.isar.de, schwarz@schwarz-online.com schwarz@debian.org, schwarz@mathematik.tu-muenchen.de PGP-fp: 8F 61 EB 6D CF 23 CA D7 34 05 14 5C C8 DC 22 BA CS Software goes online! Visit our new home page at http://www.schwarz-online.com Information forwarded to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>: <code>Bug#14923</code>; Package <code>debiandoc-sgml</code>. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgArdo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Subject: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 17:33:01 GMT Resent-Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89905494128294@bugs.debian.org> Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 14923 X-Debian-PR-Package: debiandoc-sgml X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 14923-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B14923.89905494128294 (code B ref 14923); Sun, 28 Jun 1998 17:33:01 GMT To: 14923@bugs.debian.org Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:29:02 -0400 From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Message-Id: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> I think this needs to be re-thought in the light of the emerging debian metadata standard. Personally, I would be happy if there was URL support, a la the linuxdoc package, i.e., a tag like: <URL id="http://foo.bar/" name="optional name, defaults to id"> Then, when the metadata format is supported, simply allow one to refer to metadata elements in some way. This might be quite complex, since metadata describes things of arbitrary MIME types. And a particular document may or may not be installed locally. Which is to say I'd like to shelf this wishlist and just get URL support in ASAP. .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Acknowledgement sent to <code>"Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com></code>: Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Ian Jackson) To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Subject: Bug#14923: Info received (was thoughts on this wishlist) Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89905494128294.ackinfo@bugs.debian.org> In-Reply-To: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> References: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 14923 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 14923@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 14923) by bugs.debian.org; 28 Jun 1998 17:29:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 28291 invoked from network); 28 Jun 1998 17:29:01 -0000 Received: from amsterdam.interport.net (199.184.165.9) by debian.novare.net with SMTP; 28 Jun 1998 17:29:00 -0000 Received: from burrito.fake (mail@usrts1p243.port.net [207.237.104.243]) by amsterdam.interport.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29466 for <14923@bugs.debian.org>; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (burrito.fake) [127.0.0.1] (apharris) by burrito.fake with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0yqLGA-0003iX-00; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:29:02 -0400 To: 14923@bugs.debian.org Subject: thoughts on this wishlist Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:29:02 -0400 From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Message-Id: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> I think this needs to be re-thought in the light of the emerging debian metadata standard. Personally, I would be happy if there was URL support, a la the linuxdoc package, i.e., a tag like: <URL id="http://foo.bar/" name="optional name, defaults to id"> Then, when the metadata format is supported, simply allow one to refer to metadata elements in some way. This might be quite complex, since metadata describes things of arbitrary MIME types. And a particular document may or may not be installed locally. Which is to say I'd like to shelf this wishlist and just get URL support in ASAP. .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Information forwarded to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org</code>: <code>Bug#14923</code>; Package <code>debiandoc-sgml</code>. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Subject: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist Reply-To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:33:02 GMT Resent-Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.8991520731514@bugs.debian.org> Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 14923 X-Debian-PR-Package: debiandoc-sgml X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 14923-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B14923.8991520731514 (code B ref 14923); Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:33:02 GMT To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org References: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Date: 29 Jun 1998 22:23:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris"'s message of "Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:29:02 -0400" Message-ID: <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Lines: 57 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Hi, I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. W.r.t. the URL support: this is on my TODO list for version 1.1.0 and I just implemented an ftpsite/ftppath-like tag pair for this, used e.g. as <httpsite "www.debian.org"> and <httppath "support.html">. In the .html file you then get respectively <code>www.debian.org</code> and <A href="http://www.debian.org/support.html"><code>support.html</code></A> Since this is not be best way to provide URL support (although it can have its applications), I'll also implement the <url> tag as you suggest as a more general reference. Note that all these reference tags will be succeeded by the new <ref>. I was planning to add some more features before releasing this version, but I might just as well as release it in a day or two (after some more thorough testing and after documenting the SUBDOC feature not being supported :-). Thanks, Ardo "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> writes: > I think this needs to be re-thought in the light of the emerging > debian metadata standard. Personally, I would be happy if there > was URL support, a la the linuxdoc package, i.e., a tag like: > > <URL id="http://foo.bar/" name="optional name, defaults to id"> > > Then, when the metadata format is supported, simply allow one > to refer to metadata elements in some way. This might be quite > complex, since metadata describes things of arbitrary MIME types. > And a particular document may or may not be installed locally. > > Which is to say I'd like to shelf this wishlist and just get URL > support in ASAP. > > .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> > > -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl, ardo@debian.org home page: http://www.tip.nl/users/ardo.van.rangelrooij PGP fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9 Acknowledgement sent to <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>: Extra info received and forwarded to list. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Ian Jackson) To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Subject: Bug#14923: Info received (was Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist) Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.8991520731514.ackinfo@bugs.debian.org> In-Reply-To: <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> References: <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 14923 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 14923@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 14923) by bugs.debian.org; 29 Jun 1998 20:27:53 +0000 Received: (qmail 1507 invoked from network); 29 Jun 1998 20:27:52 -0000 Received: from helium.tip.nl (195.18.64.71) by debian.novare.net with SMTP; 29 Jun 1998 20:27:52 -0000 Received: from rivendell.middle-earth.earth by helium.tip.nl with esmtp (Smail3.2 #23) id m0yqkaD-001YhLC; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:31:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ardo@localhost) by rivendell.middle-earth.earth (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id WAA05019; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:23:13 +0200 To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist References: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Date: 29 Jun 1998 22:23:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris"'s message of "Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:29:02 -0400" Message-ID: <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Lines: 57 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Hi, I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. W.r.t. the URL support: this is on my TODO list for version 1.1.0 and I just implemented an ftpsite/ftppath-like tag pair for this, used e.g. as <httpsite "www.debian.org"> and <httppath "support.html">. In the .html file you then get respectively <code>www.debian.org</code> and <A href="http://www.debian.org/support.html"><code>support.html</code></A> Since this is not be best way to provide URL support (although it can have its applications), I'll also implement the <url> tag as you suggest as a more general reference. Note that all these reference tags will be succeeded by the new <ref>. I was planning to add some more features before releasing this version, but I might just as well as release it in a day or two (after some more thorough testing and after documenting the SUBDOC feature not being supported :-). Thanks, Ardo "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> writes: > I think this needs to be re-thought in the light of the emerging > debian metadata standard. Personally, I would be happy if there > was URL support, a la the linuxdoc package, i.e., a tag like: > > <URL id="http://foo.bar/" name="optional name, defaults to id"> > > Then, when the metadata format is supported, simply allow one > to refer to metadata elements in some way. This might be quite > complex, since metadata describes things of arbitrary MIME types. > And a particular document may or may not be installed locally. > > Which is to say I'd like to shelf this wishlist and just get URL > support in ASAP. > > .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> > > -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl, ardo@debian.org home page: http://www.tip.nl/users/ardo.van.rangelrooij PGP fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9 Information forwarded to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>: <code>Bug#14923</code>; Package <code>debiandoc-sgml</code>. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgArdo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Subject: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:48:00 GMT Resent-Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89915639624386@bugs.debian.org> Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 14923 X-Debian-PR-Package: debiandoc-sgml X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 14923-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B14923.89915639624386 (code B ref 14923); Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:48:00 GMT To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> cc: 14923@bugs.debian.org In-reply-to: Your message of "29 Jun 1998 22:23:12 +0200." <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:41 -0400 From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Message-Id: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> In message <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> you wrote: >I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to >put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, >etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm >still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. Yes, it *is* nice. To be honest, I don't really grok URL vs URN, though I understand that URN are supposed to be more stable, rather like a "well known service". Maybe we should implement (eventually) debian metadata references as URN, with our own scheme? (I.e., "debian://jade/jade.htm" being a reference to the resource and metadata jade.htm, installed from the package jade, which also happens to be translatable into a file URL, "file://localhost/usr/doc/jade/jade.htm". Nice, eh?) >W.r.t. the URL support: this is on my TODO list for version 1.1.0 and >I just implemented an ftpsite/ftppath-like tag pair for this, used >e.g. as <httpsite "www.debian.org"> and <httppath "support.html">. [...] >Since this is not be best way to provide URL support (although it can >have its applications), I'll also implement the <url> tag as you >suggest as a more general reference. Excellent. >Note that all these reference >tags will be succeeded by the new <ref>. Right; this would be the URN-enabled <ref> with a design similar, though not exactly the same in details, to Christian's design. Ardo, please count on me if you need any help documenting, DTD writing, testing, or doing design work! >I was planning to add some more features before releasing this >version, but I might just as well as release it in a day or two (after >some more thorough testing and after documenting the SUBDOC feature not >being supported :-). Yes, early and often release is good, not that I'm one to talk. .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Acknowledgement sent to <code>"Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com></code>: Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Ian Jackson) To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Subject: Bug#14923: Info received (was Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist ) Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89915639624386.ackinfo@bugs.debian.org> In-Reply-To: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> References: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 14923 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 14923@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 14923) by bugs.debian.org; 29 Jun 1998 21:39:56 +0000 Received: (qmail 24381 invoked from network); 29 Jun 1998 21:39:56 -0000 Received: from amsterdam.interport.net (199.184.165.9) by debian.novare.net with SMTP; 29 Jun 1998 21:39:56 -0000 Received: from burrito.fake (mail@usrts2p110.port.net [207.237.105.110]) by amsterdam.interport.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22632; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (burrito.fake) [127.0.0.1] (apharris) by burrito.fake with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0yqleH-0006IL-00; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:41 -0400 To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> cc: 14923@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist In-reply-to: Your message of "29 Jun 1998 22:23:12 +0200." <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:41 -0400 From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Message-Id: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> In message <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> you wrote: >I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to >put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, >etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm >still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. Yes, it *is* nice. To be honest, I don't really grok URL vs URN, though I understand that URN are supposed to be more stable, rather like a "well known service". Maybe we should implement (eventually) debian metadata references as URN, with our own scheme? (I.e., "debian://jade/jade.htm" being a reference to the resource and metadata jade.htm, installed from the package jade, which also happens to be translatable into a file URL, "file://localhost/usr/doc/jade/jade.htm". Nice, eh?) >W.r.t. the URL support: this is on my TODO list for version 1.1.0 and >I just implemented an ftpsite/ftppath-like tag pair for this, used >e.g. as <httpsite "www.debian.org"> and <httppath "support.html">. [...] >Since this is not be best way to provide URL support (although it can >have its applications), I'll also implement the <url> tag as you >suggest as a more general reference. Excellent. >Note that all these reference >tags will be succeeded by the new <ref>. Right; this would be the URN-enabled <ref> with a design similar, though not exactly the same in details, to Christian's design. Ardo, please count on me if you need any help documenting, DTD writing, testing, or doing design work! >I was planning to add some more features before releasing this >version, but I might just as well as release it in a day or two (after >some more thorough testing and after documenting the SUBDOC feature not >being supported :-). Yes, early and often release is good, not that I'm one to talk. .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Information forwarded to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org</code>: <code>Bug#14923</code>; Package <code>debiandoc-sgml</code>. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Subject: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist Reply-To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:03:01 GMT Resent-Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89923685815863@bugs.debian.org> Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 14923 X-Debian-PR-Package: debiandoc-sgml X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 14923-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B14923.89923685815863 (code B ref 14923); Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:03:01 GMT To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org References: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Date: 30 Jun 1998 21:40:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris"'s message of "Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:41 -0400" Message-ID: <87ra068yq9.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Lines: 36 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> writes: > In message <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> you wrote: > >I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to > >put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, > >etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm > >still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. > > Yes, it *is* nice. To be honest, I don't really grok URL vs URN, though > I understand that URN are supposed to be more stable, rather like a > "well known service". Maybe we should implement (eventually) debian > metadata references as URN, with our own scheme? > (I.e., "debian://jade/jade.htm" being a reference to the resource and > metadata jade.htm, installed from the package jade, which also happens > to be translatable into a file URL, "file://localhost/usr/doc/jade/jade.htm". > Nice, eh?) Yes! Please hold this thought until we have the <ref> discussion. [snip] > Ardo, please count on me if you need any help documenting, DTD writing, > testing, or doing design work! Thanks! I will certainly keep this in mind. [snip] > .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Thanks, Ardo -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl, ardo@debian.org home page: http://www.tip.nl/users/ardo.van.rangelrooij PGP fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9 Acknowledgement sent to <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>: Extra info received and forwarded to list. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Ian Jackson) To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Subject: Bug#14923: Info received (was Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist) Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89923685815863.ackinfo@bugs.debian.org> In-Reply-To: <87ra068yq9.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> References: <87ra068yq9.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 14923 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 14923@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 14923) by bugs.debian.org; 30 Jun 1998 20:00:58 +0000 Received: (qmail 15860 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1998 20:00:56 -0000 Received: from helium.tip.nl (195.18.64.71) by debian.novare.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1998 20:00:56 -0000 Received: from rivendell.middle-earth.earth by helium.tip.nl with esmtp (Smail3.2 #23) id m0yr6dX-001YdMC; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:04:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ardo@localhost) by rivendell.middle-earth.earth (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id VAA10667; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:40:32 +0200 To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist References: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Date: 30 Jun 1998 21:40:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris"'s message of "Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:41 -0400" Message-ID: <87ra068yq9.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Lines: 36 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> writes: > In message <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> you wrote: > >I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to > >put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, > >etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm > >still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. > > Yes, it *is* nice. To be honest, I don't really grok URL vs URN, though > I understand that URN are supposed to be more stable, rather like a > "well known service". Maybe we should implement (eventually) debian > metadata references as URN, with our own scheme? > (I.e., "debian://jade/jade.htm" being a reference to the resource and > metadata jade.htm, installed from the package jade, which also happens > to be translatable into a file URL, "file://localhost/usr/doc/jade/jade.htm". > Nice, eh?) Yes! Please hold this thought until we have the <ref> discussion. [snip] > Ardo, please count on me if you need any help documenting, DTD writing, > testing, or doing design work! Thanks! I will certainly keep this in mind. [snip] > .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Thanks, Ardo -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl, ardo@debian.org home page: http://www.tip.nl/users/ardo.van.rangelrooij PGP fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9 Changed Bug title. Request was from <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org></code> to <code>control@bugs.debian.org</code>. Received: (at control) by bugs.debian.org; 9 Mar 2003 22:59:58 +0000 From ardo@sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 09 16:59:57 2003 Return-path: <ardo@sbcglobal.net> Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185] by master.debian.org with smtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 18s9lt-0007mc-00; Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:59:57 -0600 Received: from adsl-68-74-113-100.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net (HELO gondor.middle-earth) (ardo@sbcglobal.net@68.74.113.100 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2003 22:59:57 -0000 Received: from ardo by gondor.middle-earth with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18s9ls-0002Me-00 for <control@bugs.debian.org>; Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:59:56 -0600 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 16:59:56 -0600 From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org> To: control@bugs.debian.org Subject: reassign Message-ID: <20030309225956.GG16242@sbcglobal.net> Reply-To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@sbcglobal.net> Delivered-To: control@bugs.debian.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.44 X-Spam-Level: retitle 14923 debian doc URN scheme reassign 14923 doc-base thanks -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo@debian.org home page: http://people.debian.org/~ardo GnuPG fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9 Bug reassigned from package `debiandoc-sgml' to `doc-base'. Request was from <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org></code> to <code>control@bugs.debian.org</code>. Received: (at control) by bugs.debian.org; 9 Mar 2003 22:59:58 +0000 From ardo@sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 09 16:59:57 2003 Return-path: <ardo@sbcglobal.net> Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185] by master.debian.org with smtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 18s9lt-0007mc-00; Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:59:57 -0600 Received: from adsl-68-74-113-100.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net (HELO gondor.middle-earth) (ardo@sbcglobal.net@68.74.113.100 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2003 22:59:57 -0000 Received: from ardo by gondor.middle-earth with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18s9ls-0002Me-00 for <control@bugs.debian.org>; Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:59:56 -0600 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 16:59:56 -0600 From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org> To: control@bugs.debian.org Subject: reassign Message-ID: <20030309225956.GG16242@sbcglobal.net> Reply-To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@sbcglobal.net> Delivered-To: control@bugs.debian.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.44 X-Spam-Level: retitle 14923 debian doc URN scheme reassign 14923 doc-base thanks -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo@debian.org home page: http://people.debian.org/~ardo GnuPG fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9

Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christian Schwarz <schwarz@debian.org>:
Bug#14923; Package debiandoc-sgml. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristian Schwarz Subject: Bug#14923: new tag for cross references Reply-To: Christian Schwarz , 14923@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: Christian Schwarz Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Christian Schwarz Resent-Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:03:00 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 14923 X-Debian-PR-Package: debiandoc-sgml X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B.8796958788602 (code B ref -1); Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:03:00 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: nymphe.m.ISAR.de: Umonet set sender to schwarz@monet.m.isar.de using -f Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:53:59 +0100 (CET) From: Christian Schwarz X-Sender: schwarz@monet To: Debian Bugs Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Package: debiandoc-sgml Severity: wishlist Version: 1.0.11 The following text has been developed and discussed on the debian-doc mailing list in May 97. I've just incorporated a few new ideas. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thanks, Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cross references ---------------- Goals: - we want to have links _between_ documents - the links should be as easy to use as current links within a document - the specification of the "target" for the link should be independent of filenames, www locations, etc. - html output: the link should point to either to a local file if present, or to an Internet location of the document - it would be nice to have a tag which can be used for any cross references (pointing to docs, packages, URL's, etc.) using an URN syntax Proposal: namespace is one of the following: debiandoc - debiandoc sgml files - these would get resolved to the appropriate generated HTML file residing in a directory below the SGML file - path format is "DOCID#id" ie. "debian-policy#binarypkg" package - Debian package - should display the name of the package in HTML output: link to an Internet WWW page describing the package, maintainer, location to download, etc. man - man pages - path format is "name/section" i.e. "bogomips/1" info - info pages - path format is "(info file name)node name" i.e. "(gcc)Copying" dir - directory listing - path format is "filename" ie. /usr/doc file - other local files (typically under /usr/doc) - path format is "filename" html - html pages (typically under /usr/doc) - path format is "filename#anchor" i.e. "/usr/doc/libtiff3/index.html" text - text file (typically under /usr/doc) - path format is "filename" www - Internet URL - path is an URL, e.g. "ftp://ftp.debian.org/" dwww - reference to a dwww menu entry (implementation isn't finalized yet) dwwwsearch - reference to a dwww search string (implementation isn't finalized yet) Examples: Implementation: - Every document gets a unique "document id" (called DOCID below). This id is used for file names, to reference the document, and so on. Since the name is presented to the user in URLs and directory/file names, the name should not by a cryptic abbreviated. Good examples are "policy-manual", "users-guide", "developers-reference", etc. - The tag gets an "id" attribute. This "id" specifies the DOCID. This attribute is used to identify the document when using cross references, so it is optional, but has to be set if this document is referenced by another document. - , , , ..., objects can be referenced, if they provide an "id". - debiandoc creates a file called "foo.anchors" (is this name good?) if DOCID is set to "foo". This file lists all objects that can be referenced by other documents. The syntax used in this file is: LABEL=xxx HTML=yyy TITLE=zzz TYPE=ttt NUM=nnn The arguments (xxx, ...) must not include spaces, or they have to be surrounded by quotes ("). Quotes within the argument have to be escaped (\"). The LABEL is put together from the DOCID, followed by a colon (:), optional followed by a chapter/section id. The HTML value specifies the URL of the referenced object. The TITEL arguments contains the "title" of the object. TYPE can be one of the following: "DOCUMENT", "CHAPTER", "SECTION", dependend on the type of the referenced object. The NUM argument gives the TOC number of the object for chapters or sections. Here is an example (document "Foos and Bars" with DOCID="foo"): -----cut-here-------------------- LABEL=foo: HTML=foo/index.html TITLE="Foos and Bars" \ TYPE=DOCUMENT LABEL=foo:intro HTML=foo/ch-intro.html TITLE="Introduction" \ TYPE=CHAPTER NUM=1 LABEL=foo:about HTML=foo/ch-intro.html#about \ TITLE="About Foos" TYPE=SECTION NUM=1.1 -----cut-here-------------------- - The "foo.anchors" files are stored in a common location in the filesystem. - When debiandoc2html processes an "urn:debiandoc identifier:foo" tag, it checks for the "foo.anchors" file. If this file exists, it resolves the cross reference. Otherwise, it produces a warning message. - The HTML output contains a local reference for "debiandoc" references. In addition, a HTML comment statement is included before the . A cgi script could be written to check for these comment statements and replace the local reference with an Internet reference if the file does not exist locally. - All Debian manuals are installed in the same directory structure, on the local system, on the WWW, and on the FTP servers: Filesystem: /usr/doc/manuals/debian-policy/index.html /usr/doc/manuals/debian-policy.ps.gz (optional) WWW server: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-policy/index.html FTP server: ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.html.tar.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.text.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.dvi.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.ps.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.sgml.tar.gz An Example: Here is the .sgml file (a few required tags have been dropped): Foos and Bars <author>Christian Schwarz <email/schwarz@debian.org/ <toc sect> <chapt id="intro">Introduction <sect id="about">About Foos .... And here is an extract from another document referencing the first: ... Please check the <ref id="urn:debiandoc identifier:foo"> manual for details ... ... (cf. <ref id="urn:debiandoc identifier:foo#about">) ... The lout/text output would look like this: ... Please check the Foos and Bars manual for details ... ... (cf. Foos and Bars, About Foos) ... The HTML output would look like this: ... Please check the <a href="../foo/index.html">Foos and Bars</a> manual for details ... ... (cf. <a href="../foo/intro.html#about">Foos and Bars, About Foos</a>) ... In the first step, the links will point to the Internet location of the manual. However, we can easily implement a cgi script that pre-processes all manuals, checks if the "local link" exists, and adapts the "href" before the web client gets the document. Consequences: - Only "labeled" objects of a document can be referenced. Thus, the authors should provide an id at least for all chapters. - One needs the "anchors" file of the other documents at compilation time. This produces the "chicken-egg-problem". However, debiandoc will just insert "???" and issue a warning message if the anchors file is not available instead of aborting. This way, one could compile the own document to produce the anchors file, provide this for the other authors, and wait for them to provide the anchors file of their documents. - The links will break if an "id" is renamed. We'll have to use the Debian package dependencies to avoid this. However, if the manual installed on the Internet site is changed, a few old documents installed on some workstation will still point to the wrong URL. (I think we can live with this small disadvantage.) -- Christian Schwarz schwarz@monet.m.isar.de, schwarz@schwarz-online.com schwarz@debian.org, schwarz@mathematik.tu-muenchen.de PGP-fp: 8F 61 EB 6D CF 23 CA D7 34 05 14 5C C8 DC 22 BA CS Software goes online! Visit our new home page at http://www.schwarz-online.com Acknowledgement sent to <code>Christian Schwarz <schwarz@monet.m.isar.de></code>: New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to <code>Christian Schwarz <schwarz@debian.org></code>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Ian Jackson) To: Christian Schwarz <schwarz@monet.m.isar.de> Subject: Bug#14923: Acknowledgement (new <ref> tag for cross references) Message-ID: <handler.14923.B.8796958788602.ack@bugs.debian.org> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971116162417.23089G-100000@monet> References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971116162417.23089G-100000@monet> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack 14923 Thank you for the problem report you have sent regarding Debian Linux. This is an automatically generated reply, to let you know your message has been received. It is being forwarded to the developers' mailing list for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Christian Schwarz <schwarz@debian.org> If you wish to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 14923@bugs.debian.org (and *not* to bugs@bugs.debian.org). Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (maintainer, Debian bug tracking system) Received: (at submit) by bugs.debian.org; 16 Nov 1997 15:57:58 +0000 Received: (qmail 8534 invoked from network); 16 Nov 1997 15:57:55 -0000 Received: from nymphe.m.ISAR.de (Umonet@nymphe.m.ISAR.de@193.141.69.3) by 205.229.104.5 with SMTP; 16 Nov 1997 15:57:55 -0000 Received: (from Umonet@localhost) by nymphe.m.ISAR.de (8.8.7/8.8.7/nymphe-2.1) with UUCP id RAA13265 for submit@bugs.debian.org; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 17:01:39 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: nymphe.m.ISAR.de: Umonet set sender to schwarz@monet.m.isar.de using -f Received: from localhost (schwarz@localhost) by monet.painters.schwarz-online.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23384 for <submit@bugs.debian.org>; Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:53:59 +0100 Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:53:59 +0100 (CET) From: Christian Schwarz <schwarz@monet.m.isar.de> X-Sender: schwarz@monet To: Debian Bugs <submit@bugs.debian.org> Subject: new <ref> tag for cross references Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.971116162417.23089G-100000@monet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Package: debiandoc-sgml Severity: wishlist Version: 1.0.11 The following text has been developed and discussed on the debian-doc mailing list in May 97. I've just incorporated a few new ideas. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thanks, Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cross references ---------------- Goals: - we want to have links _between_ documents - the links should be as easy to use as current links within a document - the specification of the "target" for the link should be independent of filenames, www locations, etc. - html output: the link should point to either to a local file if present, or to an Internet location of the document - it would be nice to have a <ref> tag which can be used for any cross references (pointing to docs, packages, URL's, etc.) using an URN syntax Proposal: <ref id="urn:<namespace> identifier:<path>" text="..."> namespace is one of the following: debiandoc - debiandoc sgml files - these would get resolved to the appropriate generated HTML file residing in a directory below the SGML file - path format is "DOCID#id" ie. "debian-policy#binarypkg" package - Debian package - should display the name of the package in HTML output: link to an Internet WWW page describing the package, maintainer, location to download, etc. man - man pages - path format is "name/section" i.e. "bogomips/1" info - info pages - path format is "(info file name)node name" i.e. "(gcc)Copying" dir - directory listing - path format is "filename" ie. /usr/doc file - other local files (typically under /usr/doc) - path format is "filename" html - html pages (typically under /usr/doc) - path format is "filename#anchor" i.e. "/usr/doc/libtiff3/index.html" text - text file (typically under /usr/doc) - path format is "filename" www - Internet URL - path is an URL, e.g. "ftp://ftp.debian.org/" dwww - reference to a dwww menu entry (implementation isn't finalized yet) dwwwsearch - reference to a dwww search string (implementation isn't finalized yet) Examples: <ref id="urn:package identifier:bash"> <ref id="urn:www identifier:http://www.debian.org/" text="Debian's Home Page"> Implementation: - Every document gets a unique "document id" (called DOCID below). This id is used for file names, to reference the document, and so on. Since the name is presented to the user in URLs and directory/file names, the name should not by a cryptic abbreviated. Good examples are "policy-manual", "users-guide", "developers-reference", etc. - The <book> tag gets an "id" attribute. This "id" specifies the DOCID. This attribute is used to identify the document when using cross references, so it is optional, but has to be set if this document is referenced by another document. - <book>, <chapt>, <sect>, ..., <sect4> objects can be referenced, if they provide an "id". - debiandoc creates a file called "foo.anchors" (is this name good?) if DOCID is set to "foo". This file lists all objects that can be referenced by other documents. The syntax used in this file is: LABEL=xxx HTML=yyy TITLE=zzz TYPE=ttt NUM=nnn The arguments (xxx, ...) must not include spaces, or they have to be surrounded by quotes ("). Quotes within the argument have to be escaped (\"). The LABEL is put together from the DOCID, followed by a colon (:), optional followed by a chapter/section id. The HTML value specifies the URL of the referenced object. The TITEL arguments contains the "title" of the object. TYPE can be one of the following: "DOCUMENT", "CHAPTER", "SECTION", dependend on the type of the referenced object. The NUM argument gives the TOC number of the object for chapters or sections. Here is an example (document "Foos and Bars" with DOCID="foo"): -----cut-here-------------------- LABEL=foo: HTML=foo/index.html TITLE="Foos and Bars" \ TYPE=DOCUMENT LABEL=foo:intro HTML=foo/ch-intro.html TITLE="Introduction" \ TYPE=CHAPTER NUM=1 LABEL=foo:about HTML=foo/ch-intro.html#about \ TITLE="About Foos" TYPE=SECTION NUM=1.1 -----cut-here-------------------- - The "foo.anchors" files are stored in a common location in the filesystem. - When debiandoc2html processes an "urn:debiandoc identifier:foo" tag, it checks for the "foo.anchors" file. If this file exists, it resolves the cross reference. Otherwise, it produces a warning message. - The HTML output contains a local reference for "debiandoc" references. In addition, a HTML comment statement is included before the <a href>. A cgi script could be written to check for these comment statements and replace the local <a href> reference with an Internet reference if the file does not exist locally. - All Debian manuals are installed in the same directory structure, on the local system, on the WWW, and on the FTP servers: Filesystem: /usr/doc/manuals/debian-policy/index.html /usr/doc/manuals/debian-policy.ps.gz (optional) WWW server: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-policy/index.html FTP server: ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.html.tar.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.text.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.dvi.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.ps.gz ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/doc/manuals/debian-policy.sgml.tar.gz An Example: Here is the .sgml file (a few required tags have been dropped): <book id="foo"> <title>Foos and Bars <author>Christian Schwarz <email/schwarz@debian.org/ <toc sect> <chapt id="intro">Introduction <sect id="about">About Foos .... And here is an extract from another document referencing the first: ... Please check the <ref id="urn:debiandoc identifier:foo"> manual for details ... ... (cf. <ref id="urn:debiandoc identifier:foo#about">) ... The lout/text output would look like this: ... Please check the Foos and Bars manual for details ... ... (cf. Foos and Bars, About Foos) ... The HTML output would look like this: ... Please check the <a href="../foo/index.html">Foos and Bars</a> manual for details ... ... (cf. <a href="../foo/intro.html#about">Foos and Bars, About Foos</a>) ... In the first step, the links will point to the Internet location of the manual. However, we can easily implement a cgi script that pre-processes all manuals, checks if the "local link" exists, and adapts the "href" before the web client gets the document. Consequences: - Only "labeled" objects of a document can be referenced. Thus, the authors should provide an id at least for all chapters. - One needs the "anchors" file of the other documents at compilation time. This produces the "chicken-egg-problem". However, debiandoc will just insert "???" and issue a warning message if the anchors file is not available instead of aborting. This way, one could compile the own document to produce the anchors file, provide this for the other authors, and wait for them to provide the anchors file of their documents. - The links will break if an "id" is renamed. We'll have to use the Debian package dependencies to avoid this. However, if the manual installed on the Internet site is changed, a few old documents installed on some workstation will still point to the wrong URL. (I think we can live with this small disadvantage.) -- Christian Schwarz schwarz@monet.m.isar.de, schwarz@schwarz-online.com schwarz@debian.org, schwarz@mathematik.tu-muenchen.de PGP-fp: 8F 61 EB 6D CF 23 CA D7 34 05 14 5C C8 DC 22 BA CS Software goes online! Visit our new home page at http://www.schwarz-online.com Information forwarded to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>: <code>Bug#14923</code>; Package <code>debiandoc-sgml</code>. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgArdo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Subject: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Resent-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 17:33:01 GMT Resent-Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89905494128294@bugs.debian.org> Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 14923 X-Debian-PR-Package: debiandoc-sgml X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 14923-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B14923.89905494128294 (code B ref 14923); Sun, 28 Jun 1998 17:33:01 GMT To: 14923@bugs.debian.org Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:29:02 -0400 From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Message-Id: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> I think this needs to be re-thought in the light of the emerging debian metadata standard. Personally, I would be happy if there was URL support, a la the linuxdoc package, i.e., a tag like: <URL id="http://foo.bar/" name="optional name, defaults to id"> Then, when the metadata format is supported, simply allow one to refer to metadata elements in some way. This might be quite complex, since metadata describes things of arbitrary MIME types. And a particular document may or may not be installed locally. Which is to say I'd like to shelf this wishlist and just get URL support in ASAP. .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Acknowledgement sent to <code>"Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com></code>: Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Ian Jackson) To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Subject: Bug#14923: Info received (was thoughts on this wishlist) Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89905494128294.ackinfo@bugs.debian.org> In-Reply-To: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> References: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 14923 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 14923@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 14923) by bugs.debian.org; 28 Jun 1998 17:29:01 +0000 Received: (qmail 28291 invoked from network); 28 Jun 1998 17:29:01 -0000 Received: from amsterdam.interport.net (199.184.165.9) by debian.novare.net with SMTP; 28 Jun 1998 17:29:00 -0000 Received: from burrito.fake (mail@usrts1p243.port.net [207.237.104.243]) by amsterdam.interport.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29466 for <14923@bugs.debian.org>; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (burrito.fake) [127.0.0.1] (apharris) by burrito.fake with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0yqLGA-0003iX-00; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:29:02 -0400 To: 14923@bugs.debian.org Subject: thoughts on this wishlist Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:29:02 -0400 From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Message-Id: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> I think this needs to be re-thought in the light of the emerging debian metadata standard. Personally, I would be happy if there was URL support, a la the linuxdoc package, i.e., a tag like: <URL id="http://foo.bar/" name="optional name, defaults to id"> Then, when the metadata format is supported, simply allow one to refer to metadata elements in some way. This might be quite complex, since metadata describes things of arbitrary MIME types. And a particular document may or may not be installed locally. Which is to say I'd like to shelf this wishlist and just get URL support in ASAP. .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Information forwarded to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org</code>: <code>Bug#14923</code>; Package <code>debiandoc-sgml</code>. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Subject: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist Reply-To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:33:02 GMT Resent-Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.8991520731514@bugs.debian.org> Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 14923 X-Debian-PR-Package: debiandoc-sgml X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 14923-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B14923.8991520731514 (code B ref 14923); Mon, 29 Jun 1998 20:33:02 GMT To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org References: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Date: 29 Jun 1998 22:23:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris"'s message of "Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:29:02 -0400" Message-ID: <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Lines: 57 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Hi, I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. W.r.t. the URL support: this is on my TODO list for version 1.1.0 and I just implemented an ftpsite/ftppath-like tag pair for this, used e.g. as <httpsite "www.debian.org"> and <httppath "support.html">. In the .html file you then get respectively <code>www.debian.org</code> and <A href="http://www.debian.org/support.html"><code>support.html</code></A> Since this is not be best way to provide URL support (although it can have its applications), I'll also implement the <url> tag as you suggest as a more general reference. Note that all these reference tags will be succeeded by the new <ref>. I was planning to add some more features before releasing this version, but I might just as well as release it in a day or two (after some more thorough testing and after documenting the SUBDOC feature not being supported :-). Thanks, Ardo "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> writes: > I think this needs to be re-thought in the light of the emerging > debian metadata standard. Personally, I would be happy if there > was URL support, a la the linuxdoc package, i.e., a tag like: > > <URL id="http://foo.bar/" name="optional name, defaults to id"> > > Then, when the metadata format is supported, simply allow one > to refer to metadata elements in some way. This might be quite > complex, since metadata describes things of arbitrary MIME types. > And a particular document may or may not be installed locally. > > Which is to say I'd like to shelf this wishlist and just get URL > support in ASAP. > > .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> > > -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl, ardo@debian.org home page: http://www.tip.nl/users/ardo.van.rangelrooij PGP fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9 Acknowledgement sent to <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>: Extra info received and forwarded to list. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Ian Jackson) To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Subject: Bug#14923: Info received (was Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist) Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.8991520731514.ackinfo@bugs.debian.org> In-Reply-To: <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> References: <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 14923 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 14923@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 14923) by bugs.debian.org; 29 Jun 1998 20:27:53 +0000 Received: (qmail 1507 invoked from network); 29 Jun 1998 20:27:52 -0000 Received: from helium.tip.nl (195.18.64.71) by debian.novare.net with SMTP; 29 Jun 1998 20:27:52 -0000 Received: from rivendell.middle-earth.earth by helium.tip.nl with esmtp (Smail3.2 #23) id m0yqkaD-001YhLC; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:31:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ardo@localhost) by rivendell.middle-earth.earth (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id WAA05019; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:23:13 +0200 To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist References: <E0yqLGA-0003iX-00@burrito.fake> From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Date: 29 Jun 1998 22:23:12 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris"'s message of "Sun, 28 Jun 1998 13:29:02 -0400" Message-ID: <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Lines: 57 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" Hi, I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. W.r.t. the URL support: this is on my TODO list for version 1.1.0 and I just implemented an ftpsite/ftppath-like tag pair for this, used e.g. as <httpsite "www.debian.org"> and <httppath "support.html">. In the .html file you then get respectively <code>www.debian.org</code> and <A href="http://www.debian.org/support.html"><code>support.html</code></A> Since this is not be best way to provide URL support (although it can have its applications), I'll also implement the <url> tag as you suggest as a more general reference. Note that all these reference tags will be succeeded by the new <ref>. I was planning to add some more features before releasing this version, but I might just as well as release it in a day or two (after some more thorough testing and after documenting the SUBDOC feature not being supported :-). Thanks, Ardo "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> writes: > I think this needs to be re-thought in the light of the emerging > debian metadata standard. Personally, I would be happy if there > was URL support, a la the linuxdoc package, i.e., a tag like: > > <URL id="http://foo.bar/" name="optional name, defaults to id"> > > Then, when the metadata format is supported, simply allow one > to refer to metadata elements in some way. This might be quite > complex, since metadata describes things of arbitrary MIME types. > And a particular document may or may not be installed locally. > > Which is to say I'd like to shelf this wishlist and just get URL > support in ASAP. > > .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> > > -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl, ardo@debian.org home page: http://www.tip.nl/users/ardo.van.rangelrooij PGP fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9 Information forwarded to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>: <code>Bug#14923</code>; Package <code>debiandoc-sgml</code>. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgArdo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Subject: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:48:00 GMT Resent-Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89915639624386@bugs.debian.org> Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 14923 X-Debian-PR-Package: debiandoc-sgml X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 14923-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B14923.89915639624386 (code B ref 14923); Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:48:00 GMT To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> cc: 14923@bugs.debian.org In-reply-to: Your message of "29 Jun 1998 22:23:12 +0200." <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:41 -0400 From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Message-Id: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> In message <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> you wrote: >I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to >put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, >etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm >still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. Yes, it *is* nice. To be honest, I don't really grok URL vs URN, though I understand that URN are supposed to be more stable, rather like a "well known service". Maybe we should implement (eventually) debian metadata references as URN, with our own scheme? (I.e., "debian://jade/jade.htm" being a reference to the resource and metadata jade.htm, installed from the package jade, which also happens to be translatable into a file URL, "file://localhost/usr/doc/jade/jade.htm". Nice, eh?) >W.r.t. the URL support: this is on my TODO list for version 1.1.0 and >I just implemented an ftpsite/ftppath-like tag pair for this, used >e.g. as <httpsite "www.debian.org"> and <httppath "support.html">. [...] >Since this is not be best way to provide URL support (although it can >have its applications), I'll also implement the <url> tag as you >suggest as a more general reference. Excellent. >Note that all these reference >tags will be succeeded by the new <ref>. Right; this would be the URN-enabled <ref> with a design similar, though not exactly the same in details, to Christian's design. Ardo, please count on me if you need any help documenting, DTD writing, testing, or doing design work! >I was planning to add some more features before releasing this >version, but I might just as well as release it in a day or two (after >some more thorough testing and after documenting the SUBDOC feature not >being supported :-). Yes, early and often release is good, not that I'm one to talk. .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Acknowledgement sent to <code>"Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com></code>: Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Ian Jackson) To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Subject: Bug#14923: Info received (was Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist ) Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89915639624386.ackinfo@bugs.debian.org> In-Reply-To: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> References: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 14923 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 14923@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 14923) by bugs.debian.org; 29 Jun 1998 21:39:56 +0000 Received: (qmail 24381 invoked from network); 29 Jun 1998 21:39:56 -0000 Received: from amsterdam.interport.net (199.184.165.9) by debian.novare.net with SMTP; 29 Jun 1998 21:39:56 -0000 Received: from burrito.fake (mail@usrts2p110.port.net [207.237.105.110]) by amsterdam.interport.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22632; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (burrito.fake) [127.0.0.1] (apharris) by burrito.fake with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 0yqleH-0006IL-00; Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:41 -0400 To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> cc: 14923@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist In-reply-to: Your message of "29 Jun 1998 22:23:12 +0200." <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:41 -0400 From: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> Message-Id: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> In message <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> you wrote: >I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to >put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, >etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm >still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. Yes, it *is* nice. To be honest, I don't really grok URL vs URN, though I understand that URN are supposed to be more stable, rather like a "well known service". Maybe we should implement (eventually) debian metadata references as URN, with our own scheme? (I.e., "debian://jade/jade.htm" being a reference to the resource and metadata jade.htm, installed from the package jade, which also happens to be translatable into a file URL, "file://localhost/usr/doc/jade/jade.htm". Nice, eh?) >W.r.t. the URL support: this is on my TODO list for version 1.1.0 and >I just implemented an ftpsite/ftppath-like tag pair for this, used >e.g. as <httpsite "www.debian.org"> and <httppath "support.html">. [...] >Since this is not be best way to provide URL support (although it can >have its applications), I'll also implement the <url> tag as you >suggest as a more general reference. Excellent. >Note that all these reference >tags will be succeeded by the new <ref>. Right; this would be the URN-enabled <ref> with a design similar, though not exactly the same in details, to Christian's design. Ardo, please count on me if you need any help documenting, DTD writing, testing, or doing design work! >I was planning to add some more features before releasing this >version, but I might just as well as release it in a day or two (after >some more thorough testing and after documenting the SUBDOC feature not >being supported :-). Yes, early and often release is good, not that I'm one to talk. .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Information forwarded to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org</code>: <code>Bug#14923</code>; Package <code>debiandoc-sgml</code>. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Subject: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist Reply-To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:03:01 GMT Resent-Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89923685815863@bugs.debian.org> Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 14923 X-Debian-PR-Package: debiandoc-sgml X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 14923-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B14923.89923685815863 (code B ref 14923); Tue, 30 Jun 1998 20:03:01 GMT To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org References: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Date: 30 Jun 1998 21:40:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris"'s message of "Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:41 -0400" Message-ID: <87ra068yq9.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Lines: 36 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> writes: > In message <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> you wrote: > >I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to > >put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, > >etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm > >still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. > > Yes, it *is* nice. To be honest, I don't really grok URL vs URN, though > I understand that URN are supposed to be more stable, rather like a > "well known service". Maybe we should implement (eventually) debian > metadata references as URN, with our own scheme? > (I.e., "debian://jade/jade.htm" being a reference to the resource and > metadata jade.htm, installed from the package jade, which also happens > to be translatable into a file URL, "file://localhost/usr/doc/jade/jade.htm". > Nice, eh?) Yes! Please hold this thought until we have the <ref> discussion. [snip] > Ardo, please count on me if you need any help documenting, DTD writing, > testing, or doing design work! Thanks! I will certainly keep this in mind. [snip] > .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Thanks, Ardo -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl, ardo@debian.org home page: http://www.tip.nl/users/ardo.van.rangelrooij PGP fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9 Acknowledgement sent to <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl></code>: Extra info received and forwarded to list. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Ian Jackson) To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Subject: Bug#14923: Info received (was Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist) Message-ID: <handler.14923.B14923.89923685815863.ackinfo@bugs.debian.org> In-Reply-To: <87ra068yq9.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> References: <87ra068yq9.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 14923 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 14923@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 14923) by bugs.debian.org; 30 Jun 1998 20:00:58 +0000 Received: (qmail 15860 invoked from network); 30 Jun 1998 20:00:56 -0000 Received: from helium.tip.nl (195.18.64.71) by debian.novare.net with SMTP; 30 Jun 1998 20:00:56 -0000 Received: from rivendell.middle-earth.earth by helium.tip.nl with esmtp (Smail3.2 #23) id m0yr6dX-001YdMC; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:04:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from ardo@localhost) by rivendell.middle-earth.earth (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) id VAA10667; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:40:32 +0200 To: "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com>, 14923@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#14923: thoughts on this wishlist References: <E0yqleH-0006IL-00@burrito.fake> From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl> Date: 30 Jun 1998 21:40:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Adam P. Harris"'s message of "Mon, 29 Jun 1998 17:39:41 -0400" Message-ID: <87ra068yq9.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> Lines: 36 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.4 - "Emerald" "Adam P. Harris" <apharris@burrito.onshore.com> writes: > In message <877m20c5zj.fsf@rivendell.middle-earth.earth> you wrote: > >I was already planning to having this re-thought, especially where to > >put things, how to introduce it, how to handle non-local documents, > >etc. But maybe we should re-think the whole approach, although I'm > >still in favour of the URN notation which is very intuitive. > > Yes, it *is* nice. To be honest, I don't really grok URL vs URN, though > I understand that URN are supposed to be more stable, rather like a > "well known service". Maybe we should implement (eventually) debian > metadata references as URN, with our own scheme? > (I.e., "debian://jade/jade.htm" being a reference to the resource and > metadata jade.htm, installed from the package jade, which also happens > to be translatable into a file URL, "file://localhost/usr/doc/jade/jade.htm". > Nice, eh?) Yes! Please hold this thought until we have the <ref> discussion. [snip] > Ardo, please count on me if you need any help documenting, DTD writing, > testing, or doing design work! Thanks! I will certainly keep this in mind. [snip] > .....A. P. Harris...apharris@onShore.com...<URL:http://www.onShore.com/> Thanks, Ardo -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo.van.rangelrooij@tip.nl, ardo@debian.org home page: http://www.tip.nl/users/ardo.van.rangelrooij PGP fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9 Changed Bug title. Request was from <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org></code> to <code>control@bugs.debian.org</code>. Received: (at control) by bugs.debian.org; 9 Mar 2003 22:59:58 +0000 From ardo@sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 09 16:59:57 2003 Return-path: <ardo@sbcglobal.net> Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185] by master.debian.org with smtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 18s9lt-0007mc-00; Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:59:57 -0600 Received: from adsl-68-74-113-100.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net (HELO gondor.middle-earth) (ardo@sbcglobal.net@68.74.113.100 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2003 22:59:57 -0000 Received: from ardo by gondor.middle-earth with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18s9ls-0002Me-00 for <control@bugs.debian.org>; Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:59:56 -0600 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 16:59:56 -0600 From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org> To: control@bugs.debian.org Subject: reassign Message-ID: <20030309225956.GG16242@sbcglobal.net> Reply-To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@sbcglobal.net> Delivered-To: control@bugs.debian.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.44 X-Spam-Level: retitle 14923 debian doc URN scheme reassign 14923 doc-base thanks -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo@debian.org home page: http://people.debian.org/~ardo GnuPG fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9 Bug reassigned from package `debiandoc-sgml' to `doc-base'. Request was from <code>Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org></code> to <code>control@bugs.debian.org</code>. Received: (at control) by bugs.debian.org; 9 Mar 2003 22:59:58 +0000 From ardo@sbcglobal.net Sun Mar 09 16:59:57 2003 Return-path: <ardo@sbcglobal.net> Received: from smtp806.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.185] by master.debian.org with smtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 18s9lt-0007mc-00; Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:59:57 -0600 Received: from adsl-68-74-113-100.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net (HELO gondor.middle-earth) (ardo@sbcglobal.net@68.74.113.100 with plain) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2003 22:59:57 -0000 Received: from ardo by gondor.middle-earth with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 18s9ls-0002Me-00 for <control@bugs.debian.org>; Sun, 09 Mar 2003 16:59:56 -0600 Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 16:59:56 -0600 From: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org> To: control@bugs.debian.org Subject: reassign Message-ID: <20030309225956.GG16242@sbcglobal.net> Reply-To: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@debian.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.3i Sender: Ardo van Rangelrooij <ardo@sbcglobal.net> Delivered-To: control@bugs.debian.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.44 X-Spam-Level: retitle 14923 debian doc URN scheme reassign 14923 doc-base thanks -- Ardo van Rangelrooij home email: ardo@debian.org home page: http://people.debian.org/~ardo GnuPG fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9