Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#38902; Package debian-policy. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgDebian Policy List Subject: Bug#38902: [PROPOSED] data section Reply-To: "Darren O. Benham" , 38902@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: "Darren O. Benham" Orignal-Sender: "Darren O. Benham" Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Debian Policy List Resent-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 22:33:00 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 38902 X-Debian-PR-Package: debian-policy X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B.92844905414664 (code B ref -1); Thu, 03 Jun 1999 22:33:00 GMT Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:29:08 -0700 From: "Darren O. Benham" To: submit@bugs.debian.org Message-ID: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: "Darren O. Benham" Package: debian-policy Severity: wishlist This is Fabian's proposal with a few modifications. The last proposal was not put into the BTS and then there was talk of waiting for Wichert's proposal. I've talked with our DPL and he doesn't have one.. not on this topic. So.. here it is again and formally proposed according to Manoj's scheme. Some of this text comes from an email I received from Richard Kreckel. Since there is interest in packaging census data, maps, genome data and other huge datasets I and since most people agreed that dropping them in main or contrib is not a great idea, I propose the creation of a data section to reside along side of main, contrib and non-free. The data section would be governed by the following rules: - No package can depend on a package in data. - No package with an executable can go into data unless it is useable ONLY with a dataset in data. - The maintainer decision on this subject is just the same as with the Section: field. It's a suggestion that can be override by the archive maintainer. - Only DFSG free datasets are alowed in data. There is no non-free section of data and contrib does not make sense when applied to datasets. To that end, datasets can not depend on anything in contrib or non-free. - Datasets that currently have no DFSG-free viewer are still DFSG-free if the license to that data is DFSG-free. reason: - The data subdirectory is an entire part of Debian. Its purpose is to let the CD vendors/archives maintainers/users choice between a Debian Light who fit on a reasonable amount of CDs, and an Debian Extended who can fill your entire RAID array. -- Please cc all mailing list replies to me, also. ========================================================================= * http://benham.net/index.html <>< * * -------------------- * -----------------------------------------------* * Debian Developer, Debian Project Secretary, Debian Webmaster * *

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* ========================================================================= Acknowledgement sent to "Darren O. Benham" <gecko@debian.org>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Debian Bug Tracking System) To: "Darren O. Benham" Subject: Bug#38902: Acknowledgement ([PROPOSED] data section) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> References: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack 38902 Thank you for the problem report you have sent regarding Debian. This is an automatically generated reply, to let you know your message has been received. It is being forwarded to the developers' mailing list for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Debian Policy List If you wish to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 38902@bugs.debian.org (and *not* to bugs@bugs.debian.org). Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at submit) by bugs.debian.org; 3 Jun 1999 22:30:54 +0000 Received: (qmail 14661 invoked from network); 3 Jun 1999 22:30:52 -0000 Received: from dhcp008.53.lvcm.com (HELO darren.benham.net) (mail@24.234.53.8) by master.debian.org with SMTP; 3 Jun 1999 22:30:52 -0000 Received: from gecko by darren.benham.net with local (Exim 2.11 #1 (Debian-home)) id 10pfz2-0000Mu-00; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:29:08 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 15:29:08 -0700 From: "Darren O. Benham" To: submit@bugs.debian.org Subject: [PROPOSED] data section Message-ID: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Sender: "Darren O. Benham" Package: debian-policy Severity: wishlist This is Fabian's proposal with a few modifications. The last proposal was not put into the BTS and then there was talk of waiting for Wichert's proposal. I've talked with our DPL and he doesn't have one.. not on this topic. So.. here it is again and formally proposed according to Manoj's scheme. Some of this text comes from an email I received from Richard Kreckel. Since there is interest in packaging census data, maps, genome data and other huge datasets I and since most people agreed that dropping them in main or contrib is not a great idea, I propose the creation of a data section to reside along side of main, contrib and non-free. The data section would be governed by the following rules: - No package can depend on a package in data. - No package with an executable can go into data unless it is useable ONLY with a dataset in data. - The maintainer decision on this subject is just the same as with the Section: field. It's a suggestion that can be override by the archive maintainer. - Only DFSG free datasets are alowed in data. There is no non-free section of data and contrib does not make sense when applied to datasets. To that end, datasets can not depend on anything in contrib or non-free. - Datasets that currently have no DFSG-free viewer are still DFSG-free if the license to that data is DFSG-free. reason: - The data subdirectory is an entire part of Debian. Its purpose is to let the CD vendors/archives maintainers/users choice between a Debian Light who fit on a reasonable amount of CDs, and an Debian Extended who can fill your entire RAID array. -- Please cc all mailing list replies to me, also. ========================================================================= * http://benham.net/index.html <>< * * -------------------- * -----------------------------------------------* * Debian Developer, Debian Project Secretary, Debian Webmaster * *

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* ========================================================================= Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#38902; Package debian-policy. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgDebian Policy List Subject: Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section Reply-To: Steve Greenland , 38902@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: Steve Greenland Orignal-Sender: Steve Greenland Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Debian Policy List Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 00:33:02 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 38902 X-Debian-PR-Package: debian-policy X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 38902-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B38902.92845634513153 (code B ref 38902); Fri, 04 Jun 1999 00:33:02 GMT Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:33:03 -0500 From: Steve Greenland To: 38902@bugs.debian.org Message-ID: <19990603193303.E7615@molehole> References: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net>; from Darren O. Benham on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 03:29:08PM -0700 Organization: Not my strong point Sender: Steve Greenland A few additional rules for your consideration: - The data directory shouldn't be synced to debian releases, and ought to be paralled to dists, not main/contrib/non-free. (Since there are no executables, what's the benefit of syncing it, with the presumed multiplying of size and hassle? If a dataset needs a particular program or version, a simple dependency should be enough.) A thought: Do we need to keep a source archive separate from the .deb? Almost all of these package are effectively their own source, and since we are talking about large datasets, the burden of keeping both seems unnecessary. Before you light up the flamethrower, I'm not promoting the idea of not releasing source. But consider a package that is basically a reproduction of a website. Do we really need two 7Mb packages who's fundamental difference is that they unpack into a different location? Instead, we could make the .debs act like installers, except that they would grab the external archive from the CD or via http. Or have a /usr/doc//debian, whose rules file has a way to copy the installed data into a new tree in order to rebuild the package. Steve Acknowledgement sent to Steve Greenland <stevegr@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Debian Bug Tracking System) To: Steve Greenland Subject: Bug#38902: Info received (was Bug#38902: [PROPOSED] data section) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19990603193303.E7615@molehole> References: <19990603193303.E7615@molehole> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 38902 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Debian Policy List If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 38902@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 38902) by bugs.debian.org; 4 Jun 1999 00:32:25 +0000 Received: (qmail 13149 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 00:32:25 -0000 Received: from adsl-216-61-134-10.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net (HELO molehole.sg) (mail@216.61.134.10) by master.debian.org with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 00:32:25 -0000 Received: from steveg by molehole.sg with local (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 10phux-00025U-00; Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:33:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 19:33:03 -0500 From: Steve Greenland To: 38902@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#38902: [PROPOSED] data section Message-ID: <19990603193303.E7615@molehole> Reply-To: Steve Greenland References: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.3i In-Reply-To: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net>; from Darren O. Benham on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 03:29:08PM -0700 Organization: Not my strong point Sender: Steve Greenland A few additional rules for your consideration: - The data directory shouldn't be synced to debian releases, and ought to be paralled to dists, not main/contrib/non-free. (Since there are no executables, what's the benefit of syncing it, with the presumed multiplying of size and hassle? If a dataset needs a particular program or version, a simple dependency should be enough.) A thought: Do we need to keep a source archive separate from the .deb? Almost all of these package are effectively their own source, and since we are talking about large datasets, the burden of keeping both seems unnecessary. Before you light up the flamethrower, I'm not promoting the idea of not releasing source. But consider a package that is basically a reproduction of a website. Do we really need two 7Mb packages who's fundamental difference is that they unpack into a different location? Instead, we could make the .debs act like installers, except that they would grab the external archive from the CD or via http. Or have a /usr/doc//debian, whose rules file has a way to copy the installed data into a new tree in order to rebuild the package. Steve Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#38902; Package debian-policy. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgDebian Policy List Subject: Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section Reply-To: "Darren O. Benham" , 38902@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: "Darren O. Benham" Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Debian Policy List Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 03:33:04 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 38902 X-Debian-PR-Package: debian-policy X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 38902-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B38902.92846677116255 (code B ref 38902); Fri, 04 Jun 1999 03:33:04 GMT Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:11:07 -0700 From: "Darren O. Benham" To: Steve Greenland , 38902@bugs.debian.orgy Message-ID: <19990603201107.A2973@darren.benham.net> References: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> <19990603193303.E7615@molehole> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990603193303.E7615@molehole>; from Steve Greenland on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 07:33:03PM -0500 Resent-From: gecko@darren.benham.net Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 20:24:30 -0700 Resent-To: 38902@bugs.debian.org Resent-Message-Id: Resent-Sender: "Darren O. Benham" On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 07:33:03PM -0500, Steve Greenland wrote: > A few additional rules for your consideration: >=20 > - The data directory shouldn't be synced to debian releases, and ought > to be paralled to dists, not main/contrib/non-free. > (Since there are no executables, what's the benefit of syncing it, with > the presumed multiplying of size and hassle? If a dataset needs a part= icular > program or version, a simple dependency should be enough.) I thought about this... but in the case of a format change, a reader would have to be downloaded out of unstable (if you have a stable dist) or the data would have to wait until unstable is stablized. If there is no change in the data, then symlinks should suffice to not create a duplicate of data. Espcially if they DON'T change very often. > A thought: Do we need to keep a source archive separate from the .deb? > Almost all of these package are effectively their own source, and since > we are talking about large datasets, the burden of keeping both seems > unnecessary. Before you light up the flamethrower, I'm not promoting the > idea of not releasing source. But consider a package that is basically > a reproduction of a website. Do we really need two 7Mb packages who's > fundamental difference is that they unpack into a different location? > Instead, we could make the .debs act like installers, except that > they would grab the external archive from the CD or via http. Or have > a /usr/doc//debian, whose rules file has a way to copy the > installed data into a new tree in order to rebuild the package. Very good point. From what I understand, ammendments to proposals should be "convince the proposer" so if you agree with this, steve, consider me convinced to amend as follows: - Data debs should include all files from the original, upstream source installed into proper directories for Debian's requirements. So being, a seperate source archive need not be kept. >=20 > Steve >=20 >=20 > -- =20 > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-policy-request@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian= .org >=20 --=20 Please cc all mailing list replies to me, also. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D * http://benham.net/index.html <>< * * -------------------- * -----------------------------------------------* * Debian Developer, Debian Project Secretary, Debian Webmaster * *

* *

* =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#38902; Package debian-policy. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgDebian Policy List Subject: Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section Reply-To: Edward Betts , 38902@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: Edward Betts Orignal-Sender: Edward Betts Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Debian Policy List Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 11:47:00 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 38902 X-Debian-PR-Package: debian-policy X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 38902-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B38902.92849668110523 (code B ref 38902); Fri, 04 Jun 1999 11:47:00 GMT Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:27:57 +0100 From: Edward Betts To: 38902@bugs.debian.org Message-ID: <19990604092757.B15038@portaloo.> References: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net>; from Darren O. Benham on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 03:29:08PM -0700 Sender: Edward Betts On Bug #38902, "Darren O. Benham" wrote: > The data section would be governed by the following rules: > - No package can depend on a package in data. Where does that leave bible-kjv, bible-kjv-text and verse? Can a package in main recommend a package in data? > - No package with an executable can go into data unless it is useable ONLY > with a dataset in data. So should bible-kjv be moved to data as well? What about verse? >- Only DFSG free datasets are alowed in data. There is no non-free section > of data and contrib does not make sense when applied to datasets. To > that end, datasets can not depend on anything in contrib or non-free. So what about dict-web1913? it is the most complete dictionary for dictd but it is non-free. Does that mean that it stays in non-free, does it mean that it is erases, or does the proposal need changing. Also I thought the DFSG could not be applied to documents because they are not program, which is why Perl is allowed to include the Perl FAQ. What kind of packages are we thinking of for data? Web mirrors? anarchism - An exhaustive exploration of Anarchist theory and practice. gimp-manual - Manual for the GNU Image Manipulation Program gnu-philosophy - Philosophy of the GNU Project jargon-html - The definitive compendium of hacker slang. Funny manpages? asr-manpages - alt.sysadmin.recovery manual pages funny-manpages - more funny manpages Magazine back issues? heise-register - register of the magazines c't, iX, Elrad and Gateway lg-base - Shared files for the Linux Gazette. lg-issue01to08 - Issues 1 to 8 of the Linux Gazette. lg-issue* - Issue * of the Linux Gazette. pj-* - * * number of Pluto Journal. Technical documents? bible-kjv-text - King James Version of the Bible - text and concordance doc-rfc - Important RFCs Dictionaries? dict-easton - Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary dict-elements - Data regarding the Elements dict-foldoc - FOLDOC Dictionary Database dict-gazetteer - U.S. Gazetteer dict-hitchcock - Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary dict-jargon - Jargon File 4.0.0 dict-wn - WordNet v1.6 dict-web1913 - 1913 Webster's Dictionary miscfiles - Dictionaries and other interesting files. -- I consume, therefore I am Acknowledgement sent to Edward Betts <edward@debian.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Debian Bug Tracking System) To: Edward Betts Subject: Bug#38902: Info received (was Bug#38902: [PROPOSED] data section) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19990604092757.B15038@portaloo.> References: <19990604092757.B15038@portaloo.> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 38902 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Debian Policy List If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 38902@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 38902) by bugs.debian.org; 4 Jun 1999 11:44:41 +0000 Received: (qmail 10520 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 11:44:41 -0000 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (194.217.242.41) by master.debian.org with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 11:44:41 -0000 Received: from [158.152.142.74] (helo=smack.hairnet) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10psOj-000CIC-0C for 38902@bugs.debian.org; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 11:44:31 +0000 Received: from portaloo.hairnet [192.168.0.4] (mail) by smack.hairnet with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 10ppIU-00012E-00; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:25:50 +0100 Received: from edward by portaloo.hairnet with local (Exim 3.01 #1 (Debian)) id 10ppKX-0003vI-00; Fri, 04 Jun 1999 09:27:57 +0100 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:27:57 +0100 From: Edward Betts To: 38902@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#38902: [PROPOSED] data section Message-ID: <19990604092757.B15038@portaloo.> References: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net>; from Darren O. Benham on Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 03:29:08PM -0700 Sender: Edward Betts On Bug #38902, "Darren O. Benham" wrote: > The data section would be governed by the following rules: > - No package can depend on a package in data. Where does that leave bible-kjv, bible-kjv-text and verse? Can a package in main recommend a package in data? > - No package with an executable can go into data unless it is useable ONLY > with a dataset in data. So should bible-kjv be moved to data as well? What about verse? >- Only DFSG free datasets are alowed in data. There is no non-free section > of data and contrib does not make sense when applied to datasets. To > that end, datasets can not depend on anything in contrib or non-free. So what about dict-web1913? it is the most complete dictionary for dictd but it is non-free. Does that mean that it stays in non-free, does it mean that it is erases, or does the proposal need changing. Also I thought the DFSG could not be applied to documents because they are not program, which is why Perl is allowed to include the Perl FAQ. What kind of packages are we thinking of for data? Web mirrors? anarchism - An exhaustive exploration of Anarchist theory and practice. gimp-manual - Manual for the GNU Image Manipulation Program gnu-philosophy - Philosophy of the GNU Project jargon-html - The definitive compendium of hacker slang. Funny manpages? asr-manpages - alt.sysadmin.recovery manual pages funny-manpages - more funny manpages Magazine back issues? heise-register - register of the magazines c't, iX, Elrad and Gateway lg-base - Shared files for the Linux Gazette. lg-issue01to08 - Issues 1 to 8 of the Linux Gazette. lg-issue* - Issue * of the Linux Gazette. pj-* - * * number of Pluto Journal. Technical documents? bible-kjv-text - King James Version of the Bible - text and concordance doc-rfc - Important RFCs Dictionaries? dict-easton - Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary dict-elements - Data regarding the Elements dict-foldoc - FOLDOC Dictionary Database dict-gazetteer - U.S. Gazetteer dict-hitchcock - Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary dict-jargon - Jargon File 4.0.0 dict-wn - WordNet v1.6 dict-web1913 - 1913 Webster's Dictionary miscfiles - Dictionaries and other interesting files. -- I consume, therefore I am Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#38902; Package debian-policy. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgDebian Policy List Subject: Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section Reply-To: Branden Robinson , 38902@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: Branden Robinson Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Debian Policy List Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 14:48:28 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 38902 X-Debian-PR-Package: debian-policy X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 38902-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B38902.92850689031003 (code B ref 38902); Fri, 04 Jun 1999 14:48:28 GMT From: Branden Robinson Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:34:11 -0400 To: 38902@bugs.debian.org Message-ID: <19990604103410.B13912@ecn.purdue.edu> References: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> <19990604092757.B15038@portaloo.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=K8nIJk4ghYZn606h; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990604092757.B15038@portaloo.>; from Edward Betts on Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 09:27:57AM +0100 --K8nIJk4ghYZn606h Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 09:27:57AM +0100, Edward Betts wrote: > What kind of packages are we thinking of for data? >=20 > Web mirrors? > anarchism - An exhaustive exploration of Anarchist theory and practice. > gimp-manual - Manual for the GNU Image Manipulation Program > gnu-philosophy - Philosophy of the GNU Project > jargon-html - The definitive compendium of hacker slang. >=20 > Funny manpages? > asr-manpages - alt.sysadmin.recovery manual pages > funny-manpages - more funny manpages >=20 > Magazine back issues? > heise-register - register of the magazines c't, iX, Elrad and Gateway > lg-base - Shared files for the Linux Gazette. > lg-issue01to08 - Issues 1 to 8 of the Linux Gazette. > lg-issue* - Issue * of the Linux Gazette. > pj-* - * * number of Pluto Journal. >=20 > Technical documents? > bible-kjv-text - King James Version of the Bible - text and concordance > doc-rfc - Important RFCs >=20 > Dictionaries? > dict-easton - Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary > dict-elements - Data regarding the Elements > dict-foldoc - FOLDOC Dictionary Database > dict-gazetteer - U.S. Gazetteer > dict-hitchcock - Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary > dict-jargon - Jargon File 4.0.0 > dict-wn - WordNet v1.6 > dict-web1913 - 1913 Webster's Dictionary > miscfiles - Dictionaries and other interesting files. I wouldn't mind seeing all of these move into the data section. There's no point having a data section if we're not going to be consistent about how we use it, and if we're not going to try very, very hard to keep our criteria objective (i.e., no arguments like "the Jargon file can stay but the Bible has to go"). I don't really regard bible-kjv-text as a technical document, but... :) If I understood the proposal correctly, bible-kjv and verse would both go into the new data section. "verse" because it's designed to work only with only one data file -- bible-kjv. --=20 G. Branden Robinson | A celibate clergy is an especially good Debian GNU/Linux | idea, because it tends to suppress any branden@ecn.purdue.edu | hereditary propensity toward fanaticis= m. cartoon.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ | -- Carl Sagan --K8nIJk4ghYZn606h Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a iQCVAwUBN1fj4qiRn0nSNFD5AQFbfwP+OM6+yxYpg5iEzf+Yaj9jBFQpdDAhZnxC c/5hmY05lwYifthviDnKIdMJtdG2s+pKbI1b2n1RKI4LEtf7SiMT0FLF2ThCXkXM vxU/gY/HpalSC2hHHLwWLDvPj9d7owRGFsGaIHnFDm0+UNv0icUaas+M7tPXLmGk PoykQAo/WcI= =aPEc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --K8nIJk4ghYZn606h-- Acknowledgement sent to Branden Robinson <branden@ecn.purdue.edu>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Debian Bug Tracking System) To: Branden Robinson Subject: Bug#38902: Info received (was Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <19990604103410.B13912@ecn.purdue.edu> References: <19990604103410.B13912@ecn.purdue.edu> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 38902 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Debian Policy List If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 38902@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 38902) by bugs.debian.org; 4 Jun 1999 14:34:50 +0000 Received: (qmail 30998 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 14:34:48 -0000 Received: from slip-32-101-71-114.ky.us.ibm.net (HELO apocalypse.sequitur.org) (branden@32.101.71.114) by master.debian.org with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 14:34:48 -0000 Received: (from branden@localhost) by apocalypse.sequitur.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id KAA14008 for 38902@bugs.debian.org; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:34:12 -0400 From: Branden Robinson Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 10:34:11 -0400 To: 38902@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section Message-ID: <19990604103410.B13912@ecn.purdue.edu> References: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> <19990604092757.B15038@portaloo.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=K8nIJk4ghYZn606h; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990604092757.B15038@portaloo.>; from Edward Betts on Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 09:27:57AM +0100 --K8nIJk4ghYZn606h Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 09:27:57AM +0100, Edward Betts wrote: > What kind of packages are we thinking of for data? >=20 > Web mirrors? > anarchism - An exhaustive exploration of Anarchist theory and practice. > gimp-manual - Manual for the GNU Image Manipulation Program > gnu-philosophy - Philosophy of the GNU Project > jargon-html - The definitive compendium of hacker slang. >=20 > Funny manpages? > asr-manpages - alt.sysadmin.recovery manual pages > funny-manpages - more funny manpages >=20 > Magazine back issues? > heise-register - register of the magazines c't, iX, Elrad and Gateway > lg-base - Shared files for the Linux Gazette. > lg-issue01to08 - Issues 1 to 8 of the Linux Gazette. > lg-issue* - Issue * of the Linux Gazette. > pj-* - * * number of Pluto Journal. >=20 > Technical documents? > bible-kjv-text - King James Version of the Bible - text and concordance > doc-rfc - Important RFCs >=20 > Dictionaries? > dict-easton - Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary > dict-elements - Data regarding the Elements > dict-foldoc - FOLDOC Dictionary Database > dict-gazetteer - U.S. Gazetteer > dict-hitchcock - Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary > dict-jargon - Jargon File 4.0.0 > dict-wn - WordNet v1.6 > dict-web1913 - 1913 Webster's Dictionary > miscfiles - Dictionaries and other interesting files. I wouldn't mind seeing all of these move into the data section. There's no point having a data section if we're not going to be consistent about how we use it, and if we're not going to try very, very hard to keep our criteria objective (i.e., no arguments like "the Jargon file can stay but the Bible has to go"). I don't really regard bible-kjv-text as a technical document, but... :) If I understood the proposal correctly, bible-kjv and verse would both go into the new data section. "verse" because it's designed to work only with only one data file -- bible-kjv. --=20 G. Branden Robinson | A celibate clergy is an especially good Debian GNU/Linux | idea, because it tends to suppress any branden@ecn.purdue.edu | hereditary propensity toward fanaticis= m. cartoon.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ | -- Carl Sagan --K8nIJk4ghYZn606h Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a iQCVAwUBN1fj4qiRn0nSNFD5AQFbfwP+OM6+yxYpg5iEzf+Yaj9jBFQpdDAhZnxC c/5hmY05lwYifthviDnKIdMJtdG2s+pKbI1b2n1RKI4LEtf7SiMT0FLF2ThCXkXM vxU/gY/HpalSC2hHHLwWLDvPj9d7owRGFsGaIHnFDm0+UNv0icUaas+M7tPXLmGk PoykQAo/WcI= =aPEc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --K8nIJk4ghYZn606h-- Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#38902; Package debian-policy. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgDebian Policy List Subject: Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section Reply-To: "Oliver Elphick" , 38902@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: "Oliver Elphick" Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Debian Policy List Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 15:33:06 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 38902 X-Debian-PR-Package: debian-policy X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 38902-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B38902.92851017015961 (code B ref 38902); Fri, 04 Jun 1999 15:33:06 GMT Message-Id: <199906041529.QAA12009@linda.lfix.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) To: Branden Robinson , 38902@bugs.debian.org In-Reply-To: Message from Branden Robinson of "Fri, 04 Jun 1999 10:34:11 EDT." <19990604103410.B13912@ecn.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:29:26 +0100 From: "Oliver Elphick" Branden Robinson wrote: >I don't really regard bible-kjv-text as a technical document, but... :) It's a manual -- for living. >If I understood the proposal correctly, bible-kjv and verse would both go >into the new data section. "verse" because it's designed to work only with >only one data file -- bible-kjv. bible-kjv-text is the data, bible-kjv the program. bible-kjv could theoretically handle any text in the same way as the bible, but no other text has been formatted for it to work on. verse doesn't use bible-kjv-text for its source, but a compilation of quotes that its original author put together. It is actually a rather small package, with a 38Kb deb, including the verses. It's on a par with, say, fortune. I don't think it really fits the purpose of data. -- Oliver Elphick Oliver.Elphick@lfix.co.uk Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver PGP key from public servers; key ID 32B8FAA1 ======================================== "But without faith it is impossible to please him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Hebrews 11:6 Acknowledgement sent to "Oliver Elphick" <olly@lfix.co.uk>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Debian Bug Tracking System) To: "Oliver Elphick" Subject: Bug#38902: Info received (was Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section ) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199906041529.QAA12009@linda.lfix.co.uk> References: <199906041529.QAA12009@linda.lfix.co.uk> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 38902 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Debian Policy List If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 38902@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 38902) by bugs.debian.org; 4 Jun 1999 15:29:30 +0000 Received: (qmail 15958 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 15:29:29 -0000 Received: from mail.enterprise.net (194.72.192.18) by master.debian.org with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 15:29:29 -0000 Received: from linda.lfix.co.uk (root@max01-022.enterprise.net [194.72.195.22]) by mail.enterprise.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA28793; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:29:27 +0100 (GMT/BST) Received: from linda.lfix.co.uk (olly@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by linda.lfix.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id QAA12009; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 16:29:26 +0100 Message-Id: <199906041529.QAA12009@linda.lfix.co.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 (debian) To: Branden Robinson , 38902@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section In-Reply-To: Message from Branden Robinson of "Fri, 04 Jun 1999 10:34:11 EDT." <19990604103410.B13912@ecn.purdue.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:29:26 +0100 From: "Oliver Elphick" Branden Robinson wrote: >I don't really regard bible-kjv-text as a technical document, but... :) It's a manual -- for living. >If I understood the proposal correctly, bible-kjv and verse would both go >into the new data section. "verse" because it's designed to work only with >only one data file -- bible-kjv. bible-kjv-text is the data, bible-kjv the program. bible-kjv could theoretically handle any text in the same way as the bible, but no other text has been formatted for it to work on. verse doesn't use bible-kjv-text for its source, but a compilation of quotes that its original author put together. It is actually a rather small package, with a 38Kb deb, including the verses. It's on a par with, say, fortune. I don't think it really fits the purpose of data. -- Oliver Elphick Oliver.Elphick@lfix.co.uk Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver PGP key from public servers; key ID 32B8FAA1 ======================================== "But without faith it is impossible to please him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Hebrews 11:6 Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#38902; Package debian-policy. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgDebian Policy List Subject: Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section Reply-To: "Darren O. Benham" , 38902@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: "Darren O. Benham" Orignal-Sender: "Darren O. Benham" Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Debian Policy List Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 17:03:01 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 38902 X-Debian-PR-Package: debian-policy X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 38902-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B38902.9285155106709 (code B ref 38902); Fri, 04 Jun 1999 17:03:01 GMT Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 09:56:47 -0700 From: "Darren O. Benham" To: Edward Betts , 38902@bugs.debian.org Message-ID: <19990604095647.E6752@darren.benham.net> References: <19990603152908.M31520@darren.benham.net> <19990604092757.B15038@portaloo.> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=n+lFg1Zro7sl44OB; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <19990604092757.B15038@portaloo.>; from Edward Betts on Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 09:27:57AM +0100 Sender: "Darren O. Benham" --n+lFg1Zro7sl44OB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 09:27:57AM +0100, Edward Betts wrote: > Where does that leave bible-kjv, bible-kjv-text and verse? Personally, I view them as part of the bible and verse program... the second point should be able to make each case subjective..=20 >=20 > Can a package in main recommend a package in data? Yes. recommends: (and suggests:) !=3D depends: >=20 > > - No package with an executable can go into data unless it is useable O= NLY > > with a dataset in data. >=20 > So should bible-kjv be moved to data as well? What about verse? Subjective... what do you think? > >- Only DFSG free datasets are alowed in data. There is no non-free sect= ion > > of data and contrib does not make sense when applied to datasets. To > > that end, datasets can not depend on anything in contrib or non-free. >=20 > So what about dict-web1913? it is the most complete dictionary for dictd = but > it is non-free. Does that mean that it stays in non-free, does it mean th= at it > is erases, or does the proposal need changing. Also I thought the DFSG co= uld Stays in non-free. This proposal doesn't state that data can not be in any other section. > not be applied to documents because they are not program, which is why Pe= rl is > allowed to include the Perl FAQ. Really? Where and to what the DFSG is applied to varies with who you talk to... from what I can tell. I think the only thing that the DFSG isn't being unilatterally(sp?) applied to is documentation that accompanies a DFSG-free binary (script). > What kind of packages are we thinking of for data? >=20 > Web mirrors? > anarchism - An exhaustive exploration of Anarchist theory and practice. This is part of what started it.. > gimp-manual - Manual for the GNU Image Manipulation Program This is documentation to a program included, (subjective but) I would not move it. > gnu-philosophy - Philosophy of the GNU Project Moveable... this has had the same complaints as the anarchism. > jargon-html - The definitive compendium of hacker slang. subjective.. >=20 > Funny manpages? > asr-manpages - alt.sysadmin.recovery manual pages > funny-manpages - more funny manpages >=20 > Magazine back issues? Moveable... > heise-register - register of the magazines c't, iX, Elrad and Gateway > lg-base - Shared files for the Linux Gazette. > lg-issue01to08 - Issues 1 to 8 of the Linux Gazette. > lg-issue* - Issue * of the Linux Gazette. > pj-* - * * number of Pluto Journal. >=20 > Technical documents? I wouldn't move them unless the size is "objectionable" > bible-kjv-text - King James Version of the Bible - text and concordance > doc-rfc - Important RFCs >=20 > Dictionaries? I wouldn't but I don't know much about them.. > dict-easton - Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary > dict-elements - Data regarding the Elements > dict-foldoc - FOLDOC Dictionary Database > dict-gazetteer - U.S. Gazetteer > dict-hitchcock - Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary > dict-jargon - Jargon File 4.0.0 > dict-wn - WordNet v1.6 > dict-web1913 - 1913 Webster's Dictionary > miscfiles - Dictionaries and other interesting files. >=20 The goal of the proposal is to NOT dicate what goes in this section but to create the section and allow it to be filled by common sense. Large data objects like census data, geographical surveys, astronomical data should go in there. What does common sense tell you about dictionary files? --=20 Please cc all mailing list replies to me, also. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D * http://benham.net/index.html <>< * * -------------------- * -----------------------------------------------* * Debian Developer, Debian Project Secretary, Debian Webmaster * *

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* > ========================================================================= > > Regards, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fabien Ninoles Chevalier servant de la Dame Catherine des Rosiers aka Corbeau aka le Veneur Debian GNU/Linux maintainer E-mail: fab@tzone.org WebPage: http://www.tzone.org/~fabien RSA PGP KEY [E3723845]: 1C C1 4F A6 EE E5 4D 99 4F 80 2D 2D 1F 85 C1 70 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#38902; Package debian-policy. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgDebian Policy List Subject: Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section Reply-To: Fabien Ninoles , 38902@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: Fabien Ninoles Orignal-Sender: fab@tzone.org Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Debian Policy List Resent-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 23:18:00 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 38902 X-Debian-PR-Package: debian-policy X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 38902-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B38902.92853818225437 (code B ref 38902); Fri, 04 Jun 1999 23:18:00 GMT Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:16:20 -0400 Message-Id: <199906042316.TAA01659@TZoNE.TZoNE.ORG> X-Authentication-Warning: TZoNE.TZoNE.ORG: www-data set sender to fab@tzone.org using -f From: Fabien Ninoles To: Branden Robinson , 38902@bugs.debian.org Errors-To: fab@tzone.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.pre4 Sender: fab@tzone.org X-Originating-IP: 192.135.215.36 Quoting Branden Robinson : > On Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 09:27:57AM +0100, Edward Betts wrote: > > What kind of packages are we thinking of for data? > >=20 > > Web mirrors? > > anarchism - An exhaustive exploration of Anarchist theory and practice. > > gimp-manual - Manual for the GNU Image Manipulation Program > > gnu-philosophy - Philosophy of the GNU Project > > jargon-html - The definitive compendium of hacker slang. > >=20 > > Funny manpages? > > asr-manpages - alt.sysadmin.recovery manual pages > > funny-manpages - more funny manpages > >=20 > > Magazine back issues? > > heise-register - register of the magazines c't, iX, Elrad and Gateway > > lg-base - Shared files for the Linux Gazette. > > lg-issue01to08 - Issues 1 to 8 of the Linux Gazette. > > lg-issue* - Issue * of the Linux Gazette. > > pj-* - * * number of Pluto Journal. > >=20 > > Technical documents? > > bible-kjv-text - King James Version of the Bible - text and concordance > > doc-rfc - Important RFCs > >=20 > > Dictionaries? > > dict-easton - Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary > > dict-elements - Data regarding the Elements > > dict-foldoc - FOLDOC Dictionary Database > > dict-gazetteer - U.S. Gazetteer > > dict-hitchcock - Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary > > dict-jargon - Jargon File 4.0.0 > > dict-wn - WordNet v1.6 > > dict-web1913 - 1913 Webster's Dictionary > > miscfiles - Dictionaries and other interesting files. > > I wouldn't mind seeing all of these move into the data section. > > There's no point having a data section if we're not going to be consistent > about how we use it, and if we're not going to try very, very hard to keep > our criteria objective (i.e., no arguments like "the Jargon file can stay > but the Bible has to go"). > > I don't really regard bible-kjv-text as a technical document, but... :) Remember one thing, in the proposal, the maintainer as some right to do it. I don't want to see arbitrary decision about this. data is not like non-free. We don't have any clear guideline to decide either one package should go or not in data except for the depends part (which is technical). That's why the proposal refers to the section models. The proposal is not even accept already, we better to discussed if we keep the same sections or not. That's a more important thing. After that, people can feel bugs against ftp.debian.org to move their packages in data if it seems right to them. I'm pretty sure things will go smoothly and I think, IMVHO, that we dont need "consistent way" (I look at it like "formal") to use it, just like we don't have one for sections. Hope I interpret it correctly. > > If I understood the proposal correctly, bible-kjv and verse would both go > into the new data section. "verse" because it's designed to work only with > only one data file -- bible-kjv. That's a good example of if a software package can go or not in data. IMHO, removing it from main will just remove choice seens main should contain ALL the functionalities of Debian (either people think there are or not functionnalities in verse), and data just add to it with options. The frontier is really blur here, contrary to the legal assumptions of main (DFSG rules), and just like the way sections are provided. Please, let it be on a per packages basis, just like the section thing. > > --=20 > G. Branden Robinson | A celibate clergy is an especially > good > Debian GNU/Linux | idea, because it tends to suppress any > branden@ecn.purdue.edu | hereditary propensity toward > fanaticis= > m. > cartoon.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ | -- Carl Sagan > Regards, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fabien Ninoles Chevalier servant de la Dame Catherine des Rosiers aka Corbeau aka le Veneur Debian GNU/Linux maintainer E-mail: fab@tzone.org WebPage: http://www.tzone.org/~fabien RSA PGP KEY [E3723845]: 1C C1 4F A6 EE E5 4D 99 4F 80 2D 2D 1F 85 C1 70 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Acknowledgement sent to Fabien Ninoles <fab@tzone.org>:
Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>. -t From: owner@bugs.debian.org (Debian Bug Tracking System) To: Fabien Ninoles Subject: Bug#38902: Info received (was Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199906042316.TAA01659@TZoNE.TZoNE.ORG> References: <199906042316.TAA01659@TZoNE.TZoNE.ORG> X-Debian-PR-Message: ack-info-maintonly 38902 Thank you for the additional information you have supplied regarding this problem report. It has been forwarded to the developer(s) and to the developers' mailing list to accompany the original report. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): Debian Policy List If you wish to continue to submit further information on your problem, please send it to 38902@bugs.debian.org, as before. Please do not reply to the address at the top of this message, unless you wish to report a problem with the bug-tracking system. Ian Jackson (administrator, Debian bugs database) Received: (at 38902) by bugs.debian.org; 4 Jun 1999 23:16:22 +0000 Received: (qmail 25432 invoked from network); 4 Jun 1999 23:16:22 -0000 Received: from tzone.tzone.org (www-data@205.236.182.3) by master.debian.org with SMTP; 4 Jun 1999 23:16:22 -0000 Received: (from www-data@localhost) by TZoNE.TZoNE.ORG (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) id TAA01659; Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:16:20 -0400 Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:16:20 -0400 Message-Id: <199906042316.TAA01659@TZoNE.TZoNE.ORG> X-Authentication-Warning: TZoNE.TZoNE.ORG: www-data set sender to fab@tzone.org using -f From: Fabien Ninoles To: Branden Robinson , 38902@bugs.debian.org Errors-To: fab@tzone.org Reply-To: Fabien Ninoles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.pre4 Sender: fab@tzone.org X-Originating-IP: 192.135.215.36 Subject: Re: Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section Quoting Branden Robinson : > On Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 09:27:57AM +0100, Edward Betts wrote: > > What kind of packages are we thinking of for data? > >=20 > > Web mirrors? > > anarchism - An exhaustive exploration of Anarchist theory and practice. > > gimp-manual - Manual for the GNU Image Manipulation Program > > gnu-philosophy - Philosophy of the GNU Project > > jargon-html - The definitive compendium of hacker slang. > >=20 > > Funny manpages? > > asr-manpages - alt.sysadmin.recovery manual pages > > funny-manpages - more funny manpages > >=20 > > Magazine back issues? > > heise-register - register of the magazines c't, iX, Elrad and Gateway > > lg-base - Shared files for the Linux Gazette. > > lg-issue01to08 - Issues 1 to 8 of the Linux Gazette. > > lg-issue* - Issue * of the Linux Gazette. > > pj-* - * * number of Pluto Journal. > >=20 > > Technical documents? > > bible-kjv-text - King James Version of the Bible - text and concordance > > doc-rfc - Important RFCs > >=20 > > Dictionaries? > > dict-easton - Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary > > dict-elements - Data regarding the Elements > > dict-foldoc - FOLDOC Dictionary Database > > dict-gazetteer - U.S. Gazetteer > > dict-hitchcock - Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary > > dict-jargon - Jargon File 4.0.0 > > dict-wn - WordNet v1.6 > > dict-web1913 - 1913 Webster's Dictionary > > miscfiles - Dictionaries and other interesting files. > > I wouldn't mind seeing all of these move into the data section. > > There's no point having a data section if we're not going to be consistent > about how we use it, and if we're not going to try very, very hard to keep > our criteria objective (i.e., no arguments like "the Jargon file can stay > but the Bible has to go"). > > I don't really regard bible-kjv-text as a technical document, but... :) Remember one thing, in the proposal, the maintainer as some right to do it. I don't want to see arbitrary decision about this. data is not like non-free. We don't have any clear guideline to decide either one package should go or not in data except for the depends part (which is technical). That's why the proposal refers to the section models. The proposal is not even accept already, we better to discussed if we keep the same sections or not. That's a more important thing. After that, people can feel bugs against ftp.debian.org to move their packages in data if it seems right to them. I'm pretty sure things will go smoothly and I think, IMVHO, that we dont need "consistent way" (I look at it like "formal") to use it, just like we don't have one for sections. Hope I interpret it correctly. > > If I understood the proposal correctly, bible-kjv and verse would both go > into the new data section. "verse" because it's designed to work only with > only one data file -- bible-kjv. That's a good example of if a software package can go or not in data. IMHO, removing it from main will just remove choice seens main should contain ALL the functionalities of Debian (either people think there are or not functionnalities in verse), and data just add to it with options. The frontier is really blur here, contrary to the legal assumptions of main (DFSG rules), and just like the way sections are provided. Please, let it be on a per packages basis, just like the section thing. > > --=20 > G. Branden Robinson | A celibate clergy is an especially > good > Debian GNU/Linux | idea, because it tends to suppress any > branden@ecn.purdue.edu | hereditary propensity toward > fanaticis= > m. > cartoon.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ | -- Carl Sagan > Regards, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fabien Ninoles Chevalier servant de la Dame Catherine des Rosiers aka Corbeau aka le Veneur Debian GNU/Linux maintainer E-mail: fab@tzone.org WebPage: http://www.tzone.org/~fabien RSA PGP KEY [E3723845]: 1C C1 4F A6 EE E5 4D 99 4F 80 2D 2D 1F 85 C1 70 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Debian Policy List <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>:
Bug#38902; Package debian-policy. debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgDebian Policy List Subject: Bug#38902: PROPOSED] data section Reply-To: "Darren O. Benham" , 38902@bugs.debian.org Resent-From: "Darren O. Benham" Orignal-Sender: "Darren O. Benham" Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-CC: Debian Policy List Resent-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 03:03:32 GMT Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: iwj@debian.org X-Debian-PR-Message: report 38902 X-Debian-PR-Package: debian-policy X-Debian-PR-Keywords: X-Loop: owner@bugs.debian.org Received: via spool by 38902-bugs@bugs.debian.org id=B38902.92855176028601 (code B ref 38902); Sat, 05 Jun 1999 03:03:32 GMT Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:00:52 -0700 From: "Darren O. Benham" To: Fabien Ninoles , 38902@bugs.debian.org Message-ID: <19990604200052.H2973@darren.benham.net> References: <199906042246.SAA01539@TZoNE.TZoNE.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=z9ECzHErBrwFF8sy; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i In-Reply-To: <199906042246.SAA01539@TZoNE.TZoNE.ORG>; from Fabien Ninoles on Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 06:46:47PM -0400 Sender: "Darren O. Benham" --z9ECzHErBrwFF8sy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 04, 1999 at 06:46:47PM -0400, Fabien Ninoles wrote: > > The data section would be governed by the following rules: > > - No package can depend on a package in data. >=20 > Can *solely* depends on a package in data. ORed Depends, if > it's also resolved by a default package in main, is good > in my opinion. Example: A default E-Theme (like icE) in main and=20 > other theme (like ShinyMetal) in data. I know you said solely originally, and I removed it on purpose. If Package Foobar in main *depends* on Package barfoo in data.. then data MUST be included on the CD or it's useless. Just like contrib is useless w/o downloading something from non-free. (You can tell what I think of contrib CDs). Even if Package Foobar could be used with the small data Package BF which is in main (and depends on both). The fact that it depends on something in Data means data must be present or you'll get an "unmet dependencies" error message at install time. >=20 > > - No package with an executable can go into data unless it is useable O= NLY > > with a dataset in data. >=20 > We should add here that's not the recommend way. This kind of package > should go in main. Exception can be made for exceptionnaly big data > packages that impossible to shrink or to provide a default useable data > set. This way, people can try it on the small archive, then used it if > they like it. That would be a way around it. If this is tied to above, the binary could then Suggest or even Recommend the package in data but not depend on it. A package with an unmet dependency won't install w/o manual override. >=20 > > - The maintainer decision on this subject is just the same as with the > > Section: field. It's a suggestion that can be override by the archive > > maintainer. > > - Only DFSG free datasets are alowed in data. There is no non-free sec= tion > > of data and contrib does not make sense when applied to datasets. To > > that end, datasets can not depend on anything in contrib or non-free. > > - Datasets that currently have no DFSG-free viewer are still DFSG-free = if > > the license to that data is DFSG-free. > Hum... We should add they most not depends on the viewer. Contrib are for > those type of data, IMHO. But I don't care; If people can find data they > can't view useful... (to finish) let them build the viewer. I agree. But then, depending on something in contrib or non-free would make it non-main and the data section is only a "main" type section. There is no data/contrib or data/non-free. >=20 > > reason: > > - The data subdirectory is an entire part of Debian. Its purpose is to > > let the CD vendors/archives maintainers/users choice between a Debian > > Light who fit on a reasonable amount of CDs, and an Debian Extended w= ho > > can fill your entire RAID array. >=20 > This really looks like from me ;) It was, with some modifications. I thought I have you the credit at the top... from you by the way of another person's email.. forgot who off the top of my head > Don't care much, all my mail are DFSG-free and I forgive you > to not say it was from me ;) >=20 --=20 Please cc all mailing list replies to me, also. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D * http://benham.net/index.html <>< * * -------------------- * -----------------------------------------------* * Debian Developer, Debian Project Secretary, Debian Webmaster * *

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