<strong>Report forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>joey@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE (Martin Schulze)</code>:<br>
New bug report received and forwarded.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


joey@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE (Martin Schulze)

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


Received: (at submit) by bugs.debian.org; 27 Dec 1996 14:49:02 +0000
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	id <m0vddZE-001ZGVC>; Fri, 27 Dec 96 15:47 MET
Message-Id: <m0vddZE-001ZGVC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 96 15:47 MET
From: joey@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE (Martin Schulze)
To: submit@bugs.debian.org
Subject: fvwm95 suggests contributed software

Package: fvwm95
Version: 2.0.42a-7

fvwm95 suggests offix and netscape, both are really not needed
to use this window manager. For the same reason man could
suggest emacs, just because one can write manpages with it?

I wouldn't mind keeping this suggests line, but as long as dselect
wants me to accept (by pressing at least 3 keys) that I don't want
to install them I'd like to have them removed asap.

Apart from that the netscape installer is in the section
'contrib'.

Regards,

	Joey




<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@waterf.org&gt;</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@waterf.org&gt;

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	id 0vdgUx-0002JH-00 (Debian); Fri, 27 Dec 1996 09:55:11 -0800
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 09:55:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Christoph Lameter <clameter@waterf.org>
To: Martin Schulze <joey@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>, 6188@bugs.debian.org
cc: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
In-Reply-To: <m0vddZE-001ZGVC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227095357.8859B-100000@waterf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 27 Dec 1996, Martin Schulze wrote:

joey >fvwm95 suggests offix and netscape, both are really not needed
joey >to use this window manager. For the same reason man could
joey >suggest emacs, just because one can write manpages with it?

Both are good to use with fvwm and fvwm provides buttons to access both
packages. Those buttons wont work without these packages installed.

Customarily one expects some sort of filemanager under 95 which is
provided by offix.

--- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ ---
PGP Public Key  =  FB 9B 31 21 04 1E 3A 33  C7 62 2F C0 CD 81 CA B5 




<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


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	id <m0vdgby-001ZGWC>; Fri, 27 Dec 96 19:02 MET
Message-Id: <m0vdgby-001ZGWC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:02:25 +0100
From: joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)
To: clameter@waterf.org (Christoph Lameter)
Cc: 6188@bugs.debian.org, debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227095357.8859B-100000@waterf.org>; from Christoph Lameter on Dec 27, 1996 09:55:11 -0800
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227095357.8859B-100000@waterf.org>
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.45
Mime-Version: 1.0

Christoph Lameter writes:

> joey >fvwm95 suggests offix and netscape, both are really not needed
> joey >to use this window manager. For the same reason man could
> joey >suggest emacs, just because one can write manpages with it?
> 
> Both are good to use with fvwm and fvwm provides buttons to access both
> packages. Those buttons wont work without these packages installed.

Emacs provides a good mode to write perl scrips, so perl should suggest
emacs?

> packages. Those buttons wont work without these packages installed.

so what?

Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  joey@infodrom.north.de  *  26129 Oldenburg /
 / The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media             /
/                                             -- H. Peter Anvin /



<strong>Reply sent</strong> to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@waterf.org&gt;</code>:<br>
You have taken responsibility.


Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@waterf.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Notification sent</strong> to <code>joey@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE (Martin Schulze)</code>:<br>
Bug acknowledged by developer.


joey@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE (Martin Schulze)

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


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	id 0vdghw-0002L2-00 (Debian); Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:08:36 -0800
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:08:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Christoph Lameter <clameter@waterf.org>
To: Martin Schulze <joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de>
cc: 6188-done@bugs.debian.org, debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
In-Reply-To: <m0vdgby-001ZGWC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227100613.8929A-100000@waterf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 27 Dec 1996, Martin Schulze wrote:

joey >Christoph Lameter writes:
joey >
joey >> joey >fvwm95 suggests offix and netscape, both are really not needed
joey >> joey >to use this window manager. For the same reason man could
joey >> joey >suggest emacs, just because one can write manpages with it?
joey >> 
joey >> Both are good to use with fvwm and fvwm provides buttons to access both
joey >> packages. Those buttons wont work without these packages installed.
joey >
joey >Emacs provides a good mode to write perl scrips, so perl should suggest
joey >emacs?
joey >> packages. Those buttons wont work without these packages installed.
joey >
joey >so what?

So the purpose of the package to provide a Windows 95 simulation cannot be
reached. It is a suggestion not a dependency.

--- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ ---
PGP Public Key  =  FB 9B 31 21 04 1E 3A 33  C7 62 2F C0 CD 81 CA B5 




<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


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	by finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE
	id <m0vdgrV-001ZGXC>; Fri, 27 Dec 96 19:18 MET
Message-Id: <m0vdgrV-001ZGXC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:18:28 +0100
From: joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)
To: clameter@waterf.org (Christoph Lameter)
Cc: 6188@bugs.debian.org, debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227100613.8929A-100000@waterf.org>; from Christoph Lameter on Dec 27, 1996 10:08:36 -0800
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227100613.8929A-100000@waterf.org>
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.45
Mime-Version: 1.0

Christoph Lameter writes:

> joey >> joey >fvwm95 suggests offix and netscape, both are really not needed
> joey >> joey >to use this window manager. For the same reason man could
> joey >> joey >suggest emacs, just because one can write manpages with it?

> joey >> Both are good to use with fvwm and fvwm provides buttons to access both
> joey >> packages. Those buttons wont work without these packages installed.

> So the purpose of the package to provide a Windows 95 simulation cannot be
> reached. It is a suggestion not a dependency.

Joost Witteven has invented a tool that should fix this if I'm not
mistaken. The currently used approach isn't ok. Just think about the
un-availability of netscape? The installer will complain about a
missing archive in /tmp. Correct: because the archive can only be
fetched if Debian Linux is already installed. So today you also have
the snake that bites itself.

(btw. does win95 has a button for Netscape?)

Regards,

	Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  joey@infodrom.north.de  *  26129 Oldenburg /
 / The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media             /
/                                             -- H. Peter Anvin /



<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@waterf.org&gt;</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@waterf.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


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	id 0vdhB7-0002Or-00 (Debian); Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:38:45 -0800
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:38:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Christoph Lameter <clameter@waterf.org>
To: Martin Schulze <joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de>
cc: 6188@bugs.debian.org, debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
In-Reply-To: <m0vdgrV-001ZGXC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227103800.9226A-100000@waterf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 27 Dec 1996, Martin Schulze wrote:

joey >Christoph Lameter writes:
joey >
joey >> joey >> joey >fvwm95 suggests offix and netscape, both are really not needed
joey >> joey >> joey >to use this window manager. For the same reason man could
joey >> joey >> joey >suggest emacs, just because one can write manpages with it?
joey >
joey >> joey >> Both are good to use with fvwm and fvwm provides buttons to access both
joey >> joey >> packages. Those buttons wont work without these packages installed.
joey >
joey >> So the purpose of the package to provide a Windows 95 simulation cannot be
joey >> reached. It is a suggestion not a dependency.
joey >
joey >Joost Witteven has invented a tool that should fix this if I'm not
joey >mistaken. The currently used approach isn't ok. Just think about the
joey >un-availability of netscape? The installer will complain about a
joey >missing archive in /tmp. Correct: because the archive can only be
joey >fetched if Debian Linux is already installed. So today you also have
joey >the snake that bites itself.

Joost is implementing it in fvwm95. Talk with him.


joey >(btw. does win95 has a button for Netscape?)

Commonly it comes at least with Windows Explorer. Sadly that one is not
available <G>.

--- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ ---
PGP Public Key  =  FB 9B 31 21 04 1E 3A 33  C7 62 2F C0 CD 81 CA B5 




<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


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	by finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE
	id <m0vdhFr-001ZGWC>; Fri, 27 Dec 96 19:43 MET
Message-Id: <m0vdhFr-001ZGWC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:43:38 +0100
From: joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)
To: clameter@waterf.org (Christoph Lameter)
Cc: 6188@bugs.debian.org, debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227103800.9226A-100000@waterf.org>; from Christoph Lameter on Dec 27, 1996 10:38:45 -0800
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227103800.9226A-100000@waterf.org>
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.45
Mime-Version: 1.0

Christoph Lameter writes:

> joey >> So the purpose of the package to provide a Windows 95 simulation cannot be
> joey >> reached. It is a suggestion not a dependency.
> joey >
> joey >Joost Witteven has invented a tool that should fix this if I'm not
> joey >mistaken. The currently used approach isn't ok. Just think about the
> joey >un-availability of netscape? The installer will complain about a
> joey >missing archive in /tmp. Correct: because the archive can only be
> joey >fetched if Debian Linux is already installed. So today you also have
> joey >the snake that bites itself.
> 
> Joost is implementing it in fvwm95. Talk with him.

This is the job of the maintainer of fvwm95, I have to talk with him
about the ctwm :-(

> joey >(btw. does win95 has a button for Netscape?)
> 
> Commonly it comes at least with Windows Explorer. Sadly that one is not
> available <G>.

Just for fun, have you heard of the XExplorer project? If not, there's
a short note printed in the most recent iX magazine.

Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  joey@infodrom.north.de  *  26129 Oldenburg /
 / The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media             /
/                                             -- H. Peter Anvin /



<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@waterf.org&gt;</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@waterf.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


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	id 0vdhK7-0002QM-00 (Debian); Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:48:03 -0800
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:48:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Christoph Lameter <clameter@waterf.org>
To: Martin Schulze <joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de>
cc: 6188@bugs.debian.org, debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
In-Reply-To: <m0vdhFr-001ZGWC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227104555.9310A-100000@waterf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 27 Dec 1996, Martin Schulze wrote:

joey >> Joost is implementing it in fvwm95. Talk with him.
joey >
joey >This is the job of the maintainer of fvwm95, I have to talk with him
joey >about the ctwm :-(

fvwm95 is up for adoption and Joost is doing most of the work on it these
days although he does not want to take full responsibility for it.

joey >> joey >(btw. does win95 has a button for Netscape?)
joey >> 
joey >> Commonly it comes at least with Windows Explorer. Sadly that one is not
joey >> available <G>.
joey >
joey >Just for fun, have you heard of the XExplorer project? If not, there's
joey >a short note printed in the most recent iX magazine.

I heard rumours of Microsoft doing something like that but
it might be tasteless to include a Microsoft product in a suggestion
for software in a debian package. Assuming its available of course.

--- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++ ---
PGP Public Key  =  FB 9B 31 21 04 1E 3A 33  C7 62 2F C0 CD 81 CA B5 




<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


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	by finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE
	id <m0vdhRm-001ZGZC>; Fri, 27 Dec 96 19:55 MET
Message-Id: <m0vdhRm-001ZGZC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:55:56 +0100
From: joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)
To: clameter@waterf.org (Christoph Lameter)
Cc: 6188@bugs.debian.org, debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227104555.9310A-100000@waterf.org>; from Christoph Lameter on Dec 27, 1996 10:48:02 -0800
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227104555.9310A-100000@waterf.org>
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.45
Mime-Version: 1.0

Christoph Lameter writes:

> joey >> Commonly it comes at least with Windows Explorer. Sadly that one is not
> joey >> available <G>.
> joey >
> joey >Just for fun, have you heard of the XExplorer project? If not, there's
> joey >a short note printed in the most recent iX magazine.
> 
> I heard rumours of Microsoft doing something like that but
> it might be tasteless to include a Microsoft product in a suggestion
> for software in a debian package. Assuming its available of course.

Do you understand german? I'm not sure, if so, I'd like to quote the
note for you, if not I'll translate the relevant part.

Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  joey@infodrom.north.de  *  26129 Oldenburg /
 / The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media             /
/                                             -- H. Peter Anvin /



<strong>Bug reopened, originator set to joey@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE (Martin Schulze).</strong>
Request was from <code>joey@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE (Martin Schulze)</code>
to <code>control@bugs.debian.org</code>. 


joey@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE (Martin Schulze)

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>Dirk Eddelbuettel &lt;edd@rosebud.sps.queensu.ca&gt;</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


Dirk Eddelbuettel &lt;edd@rosebud.sps.queensu.ca&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


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Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 14:38:28 -0500 (EST)
To: joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)
Cc: clameter@waterf.org (Christoph Lameter),
    6188@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
In-Reply-To: <m0vdgby-001ZGWC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227095357.8859B-100000@waterf.org>
	<m0vdgby-001ZGWC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE>
From: Dirk Eddelbuettel <edd@rosebud.sps.queensu.ca>


  Martin> fvwm95 suggests offix and netscape, both are really not needed to
  Martin> use this window manager. For the same reason man could suggest
  Martin> emacs, just because one can write manpages with it?

  Christoph>  Both are good to use with fvwm and fvwm provides buttons to
  Christoph> access both packages. Those buttons wont work without these
  Christoph> packages installed.

  Martin>  Emacs provides a good mode to write perl scrips, so perl should
  Martin> suggest emacs?

Christoph is right. Please read the "dpkg programmers" manual, section 8.2:

   Suggests
          This is used to declare that one package may be more useful
          with one or more others. Using this field tells the packaging
          system and the user that the listed packages are be related to
          this one and can perhaps enhance its usefulness, but that
          installing this one without them is perfectly reasonable.

          dselect will offer suggsted packages to the system
          administrator when they select the suggesting package, but the
          default is not to install the suggested package.     

Many other packages declare similar relationships. This is not a bug.

--
   PGP key fingerprint = B2 49 75 BF 44 2C B7 AA  50 CB 19 7D 80 F7 CB DC
      http://rosebud.sps.queensu.ca/~edd  edd@ican.net  edd@debian.org




<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


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Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 21:27:05 +0100
From: joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)
To: edd@rosebud.sps.queensu.ca (Dirk Eddelbuettel)
Cc: clameter@waterf.org (Christoph Lameter), 6188@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
In-Reply-To: <m0vdi6u-00013kC@miles.econ.queensu.ca>; from Dirk Eddelbuettel on Dec 27, 1996 14:38:28 -0500
References: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961227095357.8859B-100000@waterf.org> <m0vdgby-001ZGWC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE> <m0vdi6u-00013kC@miles.econ.queensu.ca>
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Dirk Eddelbuettel writes:

>   Martin> fvwm95 suggests offix and netscape, both are really not needed to
>   Martin> use this window manager. For the same reason man could suggest
>   Martin> emacs, just because one can write manpages with it?
> 
>   Christoph>  Both are good to use with fvwm and fvwm provides buttons to
>   Christoph> access both packages. Those buttons wont work without these
>   Christoph> packages installed.
> 
>   Martin>  Emacs provides a good mode to write perl scrips, so perl should
>   Martin> suggest emacs?
> 
> Christoph is right. Please read the "dpkg programmers" manual, section 8.2:
> 
>    Suggests
>           This is used to declare that one package may be more useful
>           with one or more others. Using this field tells the packaging
>           system and the user that the listed packages are be related to
>           this one and can perhaps enhance its usefulness, but that
>           installing this one without them is perfectly reasonable.
> 
>           dselect will offer suggsted packages to the system
>           administrator when they select the suggesting package, but the
>           default is not to install the suggested package.     
> 
> Many other packages declare similar relationships. This is not a bug.

If I would accept this, this only affects offix, not netscape.
It very unuseful as netscape is not netscape but only an installing
routine. One can hardly install netscape at the same time as one
installes fvwm95 at the first run of dselect.

(anyway: thanks for the enlightening quote)

Joey

-- 
  / Martin Schulze  *  joey@infodrom.north.de  *  26129 Oldenburg /
 / The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media             /
/                                             -- H. Peter Anvin /



<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>joost@rulcmc.leidenuniv.nl (joost witteveen)</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


joost@rulcmc.leidenuniv.nl (joost witteveen)

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From: joost@rulcmc.leidenuniv.nl (joost witteveen)
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
To: joey@finlandia.infodrom.north.de (Martin Schulze)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 17:28:11 +0100 (MET)
Cc: clameter@waterf.org, 6188@bugs.debian.org,
	debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org
In-Reply-To: <m0vdhFr-001ZGWC@finlandia.Infodrom.North.DE> from "Martin Schulze" at Dec 27, 96 07:43:38 pm
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> 
> Christoph Lameter writes:
> 
> > joey >> So the purpose of the package to provide a Windows 95 simulation cannot be
> > joey >> reached. It is a suggestion not a dependency.
> > joey >
> > joey >Joost Witteven has invented a tool that should fix this if I'm not
> > joey >mistaken. The currently used approach isn't ok. Just think about the
> > joey >un-availability of netscape? The installer will complain about a
> > joey >missing archive in /tmp. Correct: because the archive can only be
> > joey >fetched if Debian Linux is already installed. So today you also have
> > joey >the snake that bites itself.
> > 
> > Joost is implementing it in fvwm95. Talk with him.
> 
> This is the job of the maintainer of fvwm95, I have to talk with him
> about the ctwm :-(
> 
> > joey >(btw. does win95 has a button for Netscape?)

Nice thread, this is!

What the "tool" I "invented" (well, it was Lars who invented it)
is the menu package. This will allow packages to register a 
menu-entry, and that menu-entry will then show up in all window
managers that support it. So, it will solve the problem of "stale"
menu entries, but it will not solve the problem of fvwm95 not being
a full windows95 simulation if there's not filemanager.

Personally, I always thought of fvwm95 as just another fvwm with
a win-95 look, and _that_ goal can be reached easily without
a filemanager present. But, if the goal is "Windows 95 simulation",
I guess a filemanager should indeed be suggested.

So, what is the consensus? drop the sugestion "netscape", and
keep the filemanager one?

-- 
joost witteveen
            joost@rulcmc.leidenuniv.nl
          joostje@debian.org
--
Use Debian/GNU Linux!



<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>Lars Wirzenius &lt;liw@iki.fi&gt;</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


Lars Wirzenius &lt;liw@iki.fi&gt;

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Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software 
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--==_Exmh_-1982911832P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

[ Please don't Cc: me when replying to my message on a mailing list. ]

joost witteveen:
> So, what is the consensus? drop the sugestion "netscape", and
> keep the filemanager one?

If I was installing fvwm95, I wouldn't expect it to provide
a complete Win95 simulation. I don't think even suggesting
a filemanager or web browser is the appropriate thing to do
here. If I want a filemanager or a web browser, I'll select
them separately with dselect.

If the suggestions are done, they should be done using virtual
packages, not to specific packages. We have several filemanagers
(or at least two), and several web browsers (at least four).
But I don't this situation warrants the suggestions. A separate
meta-package for complete Win95 emulation might be in order,
however.

-- 
Please read <http://www.iki.fi/liw/mail-to-lasu.html> before mailing me.
Please don't Cc: me when replying to my message on a mailing list.



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<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>Ian Jackson &lt;ian@chiark.greenend.org.uk&gt;</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


Ian Jackson &lt;ian@chiark.greenend.org.uk&gt;

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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 18:59 GMT
From: Ian Jackson <ian@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
To: 6188@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software

It seems that the text in the policy manual has led people into
error.  `Suggests' was never intended to be used like this.  By this
logic almost anything could legitimately suggest anything else.

   Suggests
          This is used to declare that one package may be
          significantly more useful in combination with one or more
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
          others. Using this field tells the packaging system and the
          user that the listed packages are be related to this one and
          can perhaps enhance its usefulness, but that installing this
          one without them is perfectly reasonable.

          dselect will offer suggsted packages to the system
          administrator when they select the suggesting package, but the
          default is not to install the suggested package.     

Will the amended wording I propose above make it clear to everyone
that fvwm95 should not Suggest any applications ?

In any case, it seems to me that the relatedness criterion is not
satisfied here.

Ian.



<strong>Information forwarded</strong> to <code>debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>:<br>
<code>Bug#6188</code>; Package <code>fvwm95</code>.


debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.orgChristoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;

Sorry, this message was lost when this bug report was restored from a backup.


<strong>Acknowledgement sent</strong> to <code>Vincent Renardias &lt;vincent@waw.com&gt;</code>:<br>
Extra info received and forwarded to list.  Copy sent to <code>Christoph Lameter &lt;clameter@debian.org&gt;</code>.


Vincent Renardias &lt;vincent@waw.com&gt;

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Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:51:45 +0100 (GMT+0100)
From: Vincent Renardias <vincent@waw.com>
To: 6188@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Re: Bug#6188: fvwm95 suggests contributed software
In-Reply-To: <m0vn7ti-0004O6C@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
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On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Ian Jackson wrote:

> Will the amended wording I propose above make it clear to everyone
> that fvwm95 should not Suggest any applications ?

FYI, here's the "offending line": 

Suggests: offix, netscape

As the maintainer of offix, I don't think this is a good idea to depend 
or even suggest offix, since as of OffiX-2.4, this package will be splited
into 2 packages; probably something like "libdnd1" and "dnd-apps".



--
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-  http://www.debian.org/           |            WAW  (33) 4 91 81 21 45  -
-                                   |         Luminy  (33) 4 91 82 85 32  -
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